ivies /Hedera

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JTh

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2011, 05:24:01 PM »
David, I would not say that this ivy is not of interest in a mediterranean climate, it is certainly not restricted to northern Europe (it may actually grow almost up to the Polar Circle along the coast here in Norway), it is after all native to most of Europe and western Asia. In a hot, dry climate it is probably not as invasive as it may be in cooler parts of the world. I believe that it may be a useful plant, and I hope that those I planted this summer will cover an ugly wire fence quickly. If so, it will make a very useful hedging. Personally, I only knew this as a somewhat difficult potted plant for indoor use (the dry air indoors in Norway is not ideal), and I was very surprised when I saw it growing wild in Greece, at first I did not recognise the large leaves growing higher up, they were very different from those on small house plants. Then I realised that there were two types of leaves, the smaller, palmately five-lobed juvenile leaves on creeping and climbing stems, and the larger, unlobed adult ones on the fertile flowering stems higher up.
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

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Alisdair

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2011, 07:45:20 PM »
John, your Crete distribution map is really impressive - great to have this sort of first-hand experience on the forum. Thanks!
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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John

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2011, 08:12:50 PM »
Thanks, rather crudely hatched though.
Hedera helix f. poetarum isn't native to Crete but is planted there in a few places. It is from SE Europe and the Caucasus but has showy yellow fruits. We have it as a shrub grown from an arborescent cutting, see picture. It is easy to keep to a confined size by hard pruning after the fruits have finished (or as is more often the case having been eaten by birds) in spring.
Years ago I grew an arborescent form of Hedera nepalensis from SE Asia which grew well but may be more tender than H. helix. It too has yellow fruits or through to orange or red.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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John

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 08:23:57 PM »
This may also be of interest. I like Orobanche though they can be a real pest on some hosts. Orobanche hederae is parasitic solely (probably) on Hedera. It is native though I have not seen it on Crete. I know of several places with it around London including Kew Gardens. Here's a picture of it in Dulwich growing on Hedera helix 'Hibernica' (subsp. hibernica).
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

David Bracey

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2011, 09:32:39 AM »
Good morning; I hope this is not a repeat from last night which appears to have been "lost". Thanks for all your help.  The picture is coming to-gether slowly. I have successfully grown several small-leafed ivies in the Gard however finding the correct microclimate is, I think, the secret for ivies in a med climate.   These I grew in a shady situation with dappled  light and perhaps a few hours of direct sunlight.  H.helix grows well under dense shade from mature evergreen oaks and is regularly trimmed to form a dense carpet.  Would it substitute as a lawn?

Ivies prefer alkaline soils so that is an advantage. There are several species coming from the Azores, Canary Islands and N Africa and they should be worth trying. I think the varieagated cultivars should be treated with respect as I `sure they will scorch if left  in direct sunlight for any length of time.

Do you think altitude make any difference? My attitude is that you have to work with what you`ve got, so suck it and see.

There is a lot of roadside planting in RSA and CA with big-leaved ivies which I assume are H algeriensis G de Marengo which put up with pollution, clipping, sun etc.  I think there is a large potential for Hederas in the med but we need some more test work on some of the species and cultivars.



MGS member.

 I have gardened in sub-tropical Florida, maritime UK, continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin, France. Of the 4 I have found that the most difficult climate for gardening is the latter.

David Bracey

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2011, 10:11:38 AM »
John according to my research , Plant List etc, H hibernica is a species in its own right. 
MGS member.

 I have gardened in sub-tropical Florida, maritime UK, continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin, France. Of the 4 I have found that the most difficult climate for gardening is the latter.

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John

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2011, 10:30:34 AM »
H. hibernica has been given several status over the years and I suppose it depends which botanist you are but go with your research. H. hibernica is vigorous and I have used it for creating quick screening.
I would imagine given the natural range of Hedera that provenance might play a part in selecting better clones for the mediterranean climate but I also suspect that this would be limited given its natural habitat.
Marginal variegated clones are more likely to not like too much sun or maybe suffer more from drought stress and I suppose many of the named cultivars are more likely to have been selected from none Mediterranean plants.
I have successfully used ivy as a lawn substitute under trees here in London but obviously just for aesthetics and not for walking on other than for maintenance. Any amount of walking on it would certainly damage the foliage and the tangle of stems would make it a trip hazard.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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JTh

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2011, 11:14:14 AM »
I would definitely not use it as a lawn substitute, the flowers are incredibly rich in nectar and bees love them.
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

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ritamax

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 10:09:01 AM »
A very late answer to this topic. We have an established ivy hedge covering the fence to the pool area (east-west sides) and on the arid southern Costa Blanca, in full sun and completely drought- and heat-tolerant. If it gets extra water, it grows too quickly, one has to be pruning all the time. It looks the same all year around (there is no frost in this area). Pollinators and butterflies love the flowers. It has some pest in a shady corner, there is some honey fungus and leaf-drop, but cutting out the bits is enough, it grows rapidly after. The pruning and vacuuming the leaves is a bit of a nuisance. 
Hobbygardener (MGS member) with a rooftop garden in Basel and a garden on heavy clay with sand 600m from seaside in Costa Blanca South (precipitation 300mm), learning to garden waterwise

Joanna Savage

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 10:47:55 AM »
David, I am probably too late to enter the ivy discussion, yet I think it is worth noting that a form of ivy was often used as painted decoration in ancient Greek red and black figure and in south Italian vase painting. That's about 6th to 3rd BCE-- at least.

There has been discussion about whether juvenile or mature leaves are shown. Often the fruit is drawn so it is usually the cordate leaf shown rather than the more spreading and lobed palmate form of juvenile leaves. 

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MikeHardman

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 11:08:11 AM »
Ritamax,
That looks very healthy, at least the part in your photos.
Keep an eye out for moths visiting the flowers, too.
Also, ivy makes a good place for birds to nest - good shade, support and with a fair bit of hindrance to any marauding cats.
You wrote 'honey fungus'; I wonder if you meant 'honeydew'?
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

David Bracey

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2012, 04:29:03 PM »



From my experience ivies suffer from red spider attacks and not much more.  They are one of the last plants to flower in the autumn and therefore attract bees, wasps, moths and so forth.

The article is written; just waiting for the ed.
MGS member.

 I have gardened in sub-tropical Florida, maritime UK, continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin, France. Of the 4 I have found that the most difficult climate for gardening is the latter.

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ritamax

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2012, 10:42:23 AM »
Yes, thanks Mike, I meant honeydew and the fungal disease which follows that, if I am not there to prune those bits out. The ivy is so fast to grow, that there are always plenty of healthy green coming out. No red spider so far.
Hobbygardener (MGS member) with a rooftop garden in Basel and a garden on heavy clay with sand 600m from seaside in Costa Blanca South (precipitation 300mm), learning to garden waterwise

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ritamax

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 04:07:48 PM »
I saw this Hedera canariensis in the wonderful Huerta del Cura garden in Elche and noticed, that my ivy hedge is the same one, which explains the complete drought- and heattolerance, no scorched leaves under full sun.
Hobbygardener (MGS member) with a rooftop garden in Basel and a garden on heavy clay with sand 600m from seaside in Costa Blanca South (precipitation 300mm), learning to garden waterwise

Trevor Australis

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Re: ivies /Hedera
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2012, 05:10:54 AM »
Ivies can be a pest but given dry ground and kept from scaling trees they do make a good ground cover. We have one here, propagated from an ancient plant that has heart shaped leaves, juvenile and adult. The best we find for colour is Hedera colchica  Variegata which has stunning golden edged leaves that never scorch or burn. There's also 'Paddy's Pride' (golden central blotch) and 'Gloire de Marengo' but they grow too vigorously for us. 'Buttercup' is also a great favourite because its new spring leaves are pure yellow and really spark up the garden fences here and there. Ivies are easily controlled by pulling up the long running trails, by clipping edges with secateurs or by poisoning in dire circumstances. Blackberry killer mixed with kero does the trick, but be careful not to let any drift elsewhere.
M Land. Arch., B. Sp. Ed. Teacher, traveller and usually climate compatible.