Salvias

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Pescalune

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Salvias
« on: June 30, 2011, 08:36:53 AM »
I love Salvia nemorosa 'Mainacht' for the deep blue of its flowers in April/May.
The Australian nurseryman Marcus Ryan told us (at an MGS meeting in Mallorca) that at his nursery they pruned it  and obtained a repeating of its flowering later in the summer. But can anyone tell me if he meant simply to dead-headed it or to cut it back to the ground?
My second question is: have you tried any of these  techniques, or do you know any other to obtain the same result (a second flowering in the same year)?
I garden in the Languedoc, my Salvia nemorosa were planted three years ago and I no longer water them for they are in a part of my garden which does not get any irrigation.
Jean
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 08:32:20 AM by Alisdair »
Pescalune

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John

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Re: Salvia nemorosa "Mainacht"
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2011, 07:32:15 PM »
I asked Marcus about this and he has kindly sent a reply. He may at some point join our forum but as you can imagine since his trip to Europe he is now very hectic with work and family.

At Lambley Nursery, we grow a dozen or more selections of Salvia nemorosa and the related hybrids S. x sylvestris, and S. x superba. These are collectively known as Meadow Sages, and the varieties we cultivate include, 'Lubecca', 'Ostfriesland', 'Amethyst', 'Caradonna', 'Wesuwe', 'Mainacht', 'Blauhugel', 'Scheehugel', 'Viola Klose', 'Marcus', 'Tanzarin', and several of our own selections. Perhaps the most beautiful is the naturally occurring Salvia nemorosa ssp tesquicola, with its rich claret coloured bracts and violet flowers.

Our Nursery and gardens are situated in the windswept plains of central Victoria, Australia, with temperatures from -7C to 45C. This group of Salvias are frost and drought tolerant, thriving in our conditions. Our gardens are watered only 3-4 times per year, during the extreme dry of our summer months.

These herbaceous Salvias emerge in early spring, and flower strongly for 8 weeks until early summer. By late December we cut the entire clumps to the ground, leaving neither stem nor foliage. For mass plantings we use a powered hedge trimmer to save time and labour. Though this seems severe, within a week new foliage emerges, and by February (six weeks after pruning) the salvia's are in full flower again. The flowers hold well until late autumn.  This second flowering is usually a shorter height than the spring display, as the rainfall is much less for this time. During late autumn the plants are cut to the ground again, to make way for the emerging under-planting of spring bulbs.

This mid-season pruning will also encourage other garden plants to flower more strongly in the Autumn: Achillea hybrids, and the globe flowers Echinops  bannaticus and Echinops ritro will also benefit from this treatment, flowering strongly again in the autumn.

I urge you to try this technique: the well timed hard prune in summer saves one from otherwise diligently dead heading all season, and rewards with a strong second flowering, giving strength to the Autumn garden!

David Glenn, the proprietor of Lambley has penned some more detailed notes regarding these Salvia's on our website, http://www.lambley.com.au/garden_notes/in_my_garden_salvia_nemorosas
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 09:51:49 AM by Alisdair »
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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JTh

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Re: Salvia nemorosa "Mainacht"
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2011, 09:43:32 PM »
I wonder if this S. nemorosa 'Mainacht' is available here in Northern Greece? Sounds like an ideal plant for my conditions.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 09:52:16 AM by Alisdair »
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

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Pescalune

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Re: Salvia nemorosa "Mainacht"
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 07:36:44 PM »
Thanks to Marcus and to John for this very complete and satisfying reply. I'll try Marcus' method and will come back to you.
Jean
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 09:52:47 AM by Alisdair »
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Christine

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Re: Salvia nemorosa "Mainacht"
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 10:40:18 AM »
I too have decided to try out Marcus's suggestion and have cut to the ground half my established group of Salvia nemorosa "Mainacht" and half the Salvia x superba. The beds now look rather ugly, but I shall watch with interest to see what happens and report back.

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MikeHardman

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Salvia sonomensis - groundcover on dry shaded loose slopes - tried it?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 01:57:08 PM »
I came across this by accident.

Las Pilitas Nursery have a detailed description of it -
http://www.laspilitas.com/nature-of-california/plants/salvia-sonomensis.

It sounds like it would be ideal for a steep soil bank I have topped with Cupressus sempervirens var. sempervirens (not fastigiate) (which holds the top edge) and which casts light shade on much of the slope during midday to afternoon.

Here's what it is capable of
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2292/2366664751_da41b026d4.jpg
---perfect for me, beautiful, fantastic!
(context for that image - http://back40feet.blogspot.com/2008/03/regional-parks-botanic-garden.html)

I find myself thinking 'I've got to get me one of these' (like Will Smith in 'Independence Day').

If anyone has tried it in mediterranean gardens and/or knows of a source or has other comments, please reply!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 11:10:09 AM by MikeHardman »
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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Alisdair

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Re: Salvia sonomensis - groundcover on dry shaded loose slopes - tried it?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 03:46:44 PM »
Southwestern Native Seeds (see draft List of Plant Suppliers attached to this plant suppliers posting) should have seed - if you're prepared for a wait! (They don't dispatch till the autumn, which would be the best time to sow.)
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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MikeHardman

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Re: Salvia sonomensis - groundcover on dry shaded loose slopes - tried it?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 09:39:06 PM »
Thanks v. much Alasdair.
Now I have looked at their seed list, I have a few others I fancy trying.
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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Pescalune

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Re: Salvia nemorosa "Mainacht"
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 08:28:22 AM »
Here is the first result of the technique inspired by Marcus Ryan's talk I heard at Sally's house in Mallorca last spring.
I severely cropped the half-dried stalks in July, after they had finished blooming, leaving only the basal leaves; I used the dried sticks to cover the rosette to protect the plant from the heat of the sun. I watered twice; but we had some unexpected and unusual rains in Languedoc in July and August, so I was lucky.
And a few days ago, a first flowering stem, rather shorter than usual, began to grow and produced the flowers you can see here.
Pescalune

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John

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Salvia patens
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2011, 12:06:25 PM »
This herbaceous species now comes in a wide range of colours but the typical habit is quite short, to maybe 60 cm. A friend of mine, from Kew student days, James Compton was in Mexico around 20 years ago (was it so long ago) where they collected this form. Salvia patens 'Guanajuato'. I personally don't think it should be a cultivar as there has to be several clones around. I grew about 6 from wild seeds and distributed them. This is from a wild population in the Sierra de Guanajuato with plants up to 2 m high and flowers 5 cm long. It maintains this habit in cultivation as seen here.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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Alisdair

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Re: Salvia patens
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 09:17:03 AM »
As Salvia patens is a relatively thirsty species, this prompted a lively discussion on choosing plants to minimise water use, which we have moved here: do join in!
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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Richard T.

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Re: Salvia sonomensis - groundcover on dry shaded loose slopes - tried it?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 11:03:36 PM »
Hi Mike,
Here are couple of salvias that work well for me here in San Jose California: S. chionophylla (Mexico) & S. aurita var. galpinii (S. Africa).  Both are shown on Robin Middleton's website: http://www.robinssalvias.com  They are low growing, spreading, rambling types.  S. chionophylla spreads more rapidly.  I will try try to get seeds to Chantal for our seed bank.
Cheers
Richard
Gardening on a alkaline clay & rock soil hillside 90+m/300ft above Santa Clara Valley, for 30 yrs.  Growing 80+ Salvias in medit. climate. Retired from Silicon Valley hi-tech, fluids, mech. & elect. designer.

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MikeHardman

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Re: Salvia sonomensis - groundcover on dry shaded loose slopes - tried it?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2011, 07:45:36 AM »
Thanks R.!
I am struck by how the foliage of S. chionophylla, in Robin's web site, looks so much like Leucophyllum frutescens.
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

Paul T.

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Re: Salvias
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2011, 12:50:39 PM »
Can I also recommend salvia chamaedryoides for a hot, dry summer garden.  Great silver foliage, almost lobelia blue flowers, and excellent droubt tolerance.  It never misses a beat. 8)
Cheers.

Paul T.
Canberra, Australia.
Min winter temp -8 or -9°C. Max summer temp 40°C. Thankfully, maybe once or twice a year only.

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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: Salvias
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 03:29:39 PM »
Salvia Chamaedryoides has been in flower for months and is still in bloom. Planted out last autumn.
MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece