Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani IDd by Oron as Impatiens balsamina

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Alisdair

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Someone cataloguing paintings for a large London church asks for help in identifying the plant held by St Jerome Emiliani, in what seems to be an 18th-century Italian painting of him. He's the patron saint of orphans, but as far as I know is not associated with any particular plant symbol.
The cataloguer thought the plant was a lily, which it obviously isn't. I wondered if it could be some sort of balsam. I've done my best to make the detail picture clearer, but as you can see from the full version it's a bit obscure.
Any ideas?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:21:09 AM by Alisdair »
Alisdair Aird
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MikeHardman

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 08:50:06 PM »
Here's an enhanced version.

I wonder about the pink madagascan periwinkle (Catharanthus roseus, ex- Vinca rosea).
Wiki: "the alkaloids vincristine and vinblastine from its sap have been shown to be an effective treatment for leukaemia and lymphoma. ... The extracts are not without their side effects, however, which include hair loss." And I note that dear old St. Jerome seems to be looking up forlornly at his receding hairline :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 08:59:43 PM by MikeHardman »
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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Alisdair

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 07:20:47 AM »
Much better picture, Mike, thanks. But it doesn't look enough like Catharanthus, or any of the Apocynaceae, for me to pass on that suggestion.
Any thoughts from anyone else, now that Mike has so much improved the image? Oleander did cross my mind, but that's associated so closely with St. Joseph that unless the saint has been wrongly identified in the picture I rather ruled it out.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 07:24:19 AM by Alisdair »
Alisdair Aird
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MikeHardman

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 07:35:58 AM »
How about a Daphne?
I think the individual flowers (4-petalled) look about right.
D. mezereum comes to mind, but that tends to flower ahead of leafing-out (though there may be an overlap). But then these paintings may use artistic licence to combine flowering with expanded leaves.
http://www.gardeninginfozone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Daphne-mezereum.jpg
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 08:00:06 AM »
A Clarkia I used to grow in England looked rather like this but now that I look at the 2011 seed catalogues of Sutton and T & M the new varieties don't look anything like it.
MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece

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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 08:09:55 AM »
Impatiens?
MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece

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Alisdair

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 08:38:15 AM »
All these are at least vague possibles; but I still hope someone can come up with a plant that has an emblematic link to the saint.  :)
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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Alisdair

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 10:41:50 AM »
I showed the picture to Chris Brickell (co-author of Daphne - the genus in the wild and in cultivation), who writes:
It appears that the flowers possibly have 4 petals (as far as I can judge) so I think it could be a Daphne species as someone suggested but not D. mezereum which would be without foliage when in flower as you mentioned. The leaves could have been added, of course, to present a more imposing effect but my guess is that it might be the evergreen D. sericea which is recorded from Italy and most of the eastern Mediterranean countries. It is quite variable in foliage, most of those in Italy having narrowly obovate leaves, while in the Balkans, Crete and Turkey they are usually lanceolate to broadly lanceolate. The flowers probably have pink exteriors and appear to be white or white flushed pink within as in D. sericea but it is not really possible to give more than cautious guidance as to the identity I am afraid.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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Alisdair

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 11:13:36 AM »
Here is one of the many bushes of Daphne sericea seen on our MGS trip to SW Turkey in spring last year - it does show some similarity to St Jerome's staff, as suggested by Chris.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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oron peri

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 11:23:08 AM »
I would have thought of a compleetly different direction: Aristolochia.
A few species of Aristolochia were  used as medicinal plants at that time, it is hard to see the flower in particulars, still it might be for example A. indica, used as atreat againts Cholera. [Easier to notice the formin the second flower from below]
Another plant that crossed my mind is Impatiens balsamina, used as well as a medicinal plant.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 11:34:42 AM by oron peri »
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Alisdair

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 11:34:17 AM »
Impatiens balsamina (I guess the one that both Fleur and I had in mind, without being able to put the exact name to it) does seem a very strong candidate, with its many uses as a herbal remedy, as well as its general similarity to the plant in the picture.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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oron peri

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2011, 01:26:27 PM »
Yes, i'll go with that..
Impatiens balsamina!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 02:31:19 PM by oron peri »
Garden Designer, Bulb man, Botanical tours guide.
Living and gardening in Tivon, Lower Galilee region, North Israel.
Min temp 5c Max 42c, around 450mm rain.

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Alisdair

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2011, 02:44:02 PM »
Terrific match, Oron!
I'll pass it on.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Umbrian

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 07:54:25 AM »
What a fascinating topic Alisdair introduced, I have followed the replies with great interest and am glad that the mystery seems to have been solved. As the Italians are very "into" saints, their calenders have a saint for every day of the year, I have been asking various friends here if they knew af St Jerome Emiliani and any stories connected to him but had drawn a complete blank.
MGS member living and gardening in Umbria, Italy for past 19 years. Recently moved from my original house and now planning and planting a new small garden.

David Bracey

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Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 09:50:28 AM »
Alisdair, this is real botanical detective work and the MGS should be able to use it to promote the organisation.  Perhaps an article in the FT, TMG or the RC Times ?  Do members have other ideas?
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 I have gardened in sub-tropical Florida, maritime UK, continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin, France. Of the 4 I have found that the most difficult climate for gardening is the latter.