[JTh]

Now I know autumn is here, the first Sternbergias have appeared both in my garden and in the wild, there are many of them around here, especially in rocky areas. You see them in many gardens in the nearest village, I am sure they have transplanted them from the wild.
I would like to get some help from the experts here, for many years I  have been wondering if they are S. lutea or S. siccula (or if you wish S. lutea ssp. siccula). Arne Strid saw a photo I sent him once and said he thought they were the latter, but I am still not convinced. The flowers mostly appears first (like S. siccula), but the leaves are wider than those described for S. siccula, and the flowers are bigger, sometimes the petals are long and narrow, but quite often more rounded, with more cup-shaped  flowers (see second photo). The two first photos are from the wild, the last one from my garden (wild source), these photos were taken last year, though.

[ezeiza]

This same thing has been discussed of late at SRGC. Basically, there are so much variation in leaf width and lenght and in tepal shape and size often IN THE SAME POPULATION that those names as sicula, greuteriana, angustifolia and lutea proper only reflect an extreme situation in a given direction.

[MikeHardman]

Lovely.
FWIW, here's a patch labelled 'Sternbergia lutea ssp. sicula' in the Jardin Botanique, Geneva.

[Alisdair]

Current taxonomic thinking now goes along with what Alberto says, and all these plants are now classified as Sternbergia lutea. It seems to me that around the Mediterranean the large-flowered showy plants we've always thought of as S. lutea are most commonly found, often in large numbers, around or not very far from human habitation, with much smaller populations found in the really wild places. The smaller-flowered ones also crop up more generally in the wilder places.
This could square up with "lutea" being selected centuries or longer ago in many places, brought home and replanted around settlements.

[Alisdair]

Incidentally, in naturalistic plantings, the smaller varieties (or forms?) of sternbergia look to me much more at home than the large-flowered "lutea" type - just as some of the smaller crocus species look so much better than the big bright blowsy bulbs sent out in the millions by the Dutch merchants.
This is perhaps the smallest, "greuteriana", originally a couple of bulbs which came to me from Cretan stock in 1996. Often under an inch high. They bulked up in a pot just as quickly as lutea, and I've sent some to other Greek gardens including the MGS garden in Attica.

[John]

I too am confused. I would say Joruns are S. sicula if it exists especially given her location. On Crete I am fairly convinced that S. sicula and S. greuteriana are extremes of the same species especially given the variation I have seen. S. lutea occurs on Crete in association with villages in the west. Here is a picture of true wild S. lutea originally from seed from a known definitely wild population in central Italy at quite high altitude not near human habitation. They are bigger than those known as S sicula.

[John]

I managed to find the picture sent by my friend of the Sternbergia lutea growing in the wild in Italy.

[Alisdair]

I think all this supports the taxonomists' current verdict that it's all one highly variable species.

[JTh]

Thank you, all of you, I am tempted to agree with Alisdair, and believe that I could stick to the name S. lutea, all these are really from the wild, definitely not origianlly from the villages, it must be the  other way around. There are great variations even within the same location, from longer, narrower petals to more rounded ones, but they are all rather big compaired to how I see S. siccula is described.
I am very happy to see them here, I tried to grow them many times in my  garden in Norway, but never succeeded. I was very excited the first time when I saw something very bright yellow in a steep, rocky hill next to the road whereI was driving some years ago. They often seem to grow together with cyclamens, like in John's photo (C. hederifolium around here). The place I showed of sternbergias in the wild is about 5-600 m above sea level, I believe.

[Alisdair]

They like a hot dry summer rest, hence no Norway!

[JTh]

Obviously!

[Hilary]

Several of the gardens in Corinth have Sternbergia flowering at the moment.
This one was in the garden of an old lath and plaster house which was pulled down.
As you see the plant came up through the flattened earth.
Unfortunately this year it didn't show as the plot is covered in weeds and deep dry grass.

[JTh]

Hilary, your photo is showing a lot more leaves than what I saw in Halkidiki, they had hardly started to appear when I left Greece two days ago, but the flowers had been out for a couple of weeks.

[John]

The wild form I have of S. lutea flowers with me after the leaves have emerged!

[JTh]

This was taken in the wild on Monday, not a leaf in sight there.