[MikeHardman]

Helena,

Those are cracking plants, and cracking photos. Love' em!
I can tell, when it comes to violets, you know your onions!

Returning to 'Julie's Violet'...
Cultivars or plant trade names have been coined for less worthy / less distinct plants than yours.
We can't identify it as another cultivar or natural taxon. So I don't think there would be much objection if you wanted to name your plant officially. As far as I know, 'Juliana' is available (there is a Nymphaea odorata 'Juliana', but that does not cause a conflict according to ICNCP rules). I'll have to check to see if the registrar, Tom Silvers / AVS, has changed or is still active. The Viola cultivar registration submission page is here.

[helenaviolet]

Thankyou Mike,
Wish I did know my onions but no, I am just very fond of them - point is that I am seeking to find the identity of that violet because I believe it is a significant cultivar. I am glad you raised the subject of naming plants. We suffer confusion because often people in commercial enterprise mis-name plants. It was thanks to Rob that I discovered "Governor Herrick" which is sold in Australia under other names. Many of my violets have been given to me by friends. I label them accordingly. 'Julie's violet' came from my old friend. It was a family heirloom for her so that's how I know it has been growing in Australia for the best part of a century now. I also have an identical plant which came from another friend with an old garden. We call it 'Rabbit Ears' and I take care to keep it growing separately although I am sure they are the same cultivar. 3 years ago I wrote to the American Violet Society with pics asking if they knew what the plant I refer to as 'Julie's v.' might be - and I outlined the descriptions for 5 plants which they have listed in their cultivars section 1a under H. eg: 'Helena's Starry Pink' !? Officially there is no such plant ofcourse, it got there via correspondence and I was surprised and amused by it. I haven't received a reply from the AVS and sadly it seems they are not presently active. I hope they come back because they did so much valuable work in collecting information about violets.
Cheers -Helena 
   

[MikeHardman]

Helena,

It is a shame the AVS website seems to have become quiescent. I have emailed Tom Silvers; will let you know.

You are being very diligent in your searching and I note your posting on the gardenweb violet forum. And I applaud your evident aim of finding the name of the original rather than coining a new one. Bear in mind, of course, that the original plant may never have had a formal name. It may have arisen before any official registers. Credence can be attached to a plant name through publication before the days of the registers, even though the description may be inadequate. Your plant could also be missing from there. So at some stage, you might need to name it. If you don't, it would probably become lost again in future; and we don't want that. Note that a violet cultivar name cannot include the word 'violet'. If you do register your cultivar, it would require a certain level of detail in description (and your photos would help greatly), and ideally a voucher specimen. That would establish it much better than just adopting a name, probably poorly described, should you succeed in your quest. I hope you unearth a name for your plant, and that you use it to name the cultivar properly.

I will send you a message through this forum, so we can continue this offline.
But if anybody else wants to chip-in, please do so!

[helenaviolet]

Valuable information, Mike, thankyou.
Here is one of the violets listed by the AVS as "Helena's Broad Petalled Lilac" - well - no. This lovely treasure was given to me 20 years ago by a lady whose name was Edna Thomas. All she remembered was that her mother had obtained it via mail order; 1960s. In growth habit, neat compact plants which are very similar to V.odorata "Rosine". For me personally it is simply 'Edna's mauve violet'. Again this is a lovely cultivar which I hope somebody may recognise. Pictured here growing in an 8 inch pot will indicate the size and yes, the flowers are scented.
Cheers, H.
 

[helenaviolet]

Hello everyone at MGS
Some warm spring sunshine my side of the world has encouraged growth and flowers on the Viola cornuta which I mentioned earlier. It came from a nursery which specialises in dry climate gardens and was described in the catalog as "A plant from hot hillsides in what used to be called Yugoslavia it is much more sun and heat tolerant than the bedding violas..." ? maybe it has become naturalized in Yugoslavia ? No matter, it is a pretty flower on long stems of about 8 inches/20 centimetres. 2 pics here which I hope will be useful.
Cheers, H.

[MikeHardman]

Helena,
Thanks for those very nice photos (in furtherance of our posts of 7oct12). They definitely are V. cornuta (white eye, very long spur, petals shape). Maybe the immediate provenance was the former Yugoslavia, but that would, as you say, have been an introduction.

[Alisdair]

Just to show that I was thinking of you all on our long jaunt to the Antipodes, I did see this tiny little violet on the lower slopes of Rocky Mountain, above Lake Wanaka in New Zealand - had only a cellphone on me and knew the picture would be no good, but took it anyway for Mike.

[JTh]

Mike, John showed a large group of violas from Montenegro in July, he asked if you could verify they iwere Viola elegantula, but I didn't see a reply. I have a closer look of the same, does it  help?

I have another Viola from the same trip, the  flowers were very pale blue, or almost  white, it was seen in the Mrtvica Canyon, does anybody know this one?

[John]

I like the pale blue one Jorun, shame I didn't see it.
Also Alisdair did you not attach a picture?

[Alisdair]

You're right John, it looks as if I failed to attach it - or the system simply decided the picture was so poor that it rejected it!
Here it is, I hope....

[MikeHardman]

Alisdair - I have never seen a Viola cunninghamii in the flesh, so I am a little envious! But I thank you for thinking of me and taking the photo.

Jorun - Thanks also. Very nice photos. I have been working on this today, but I don't have answers yet. I have candidates, but matters are not helped by mis-identification of plants in photos
I have also been very busy with moth identifications (working with the excellent folks at www.lepiforum.de)

John - I am also still working on my reply to your earlier photos/questions. More research required than you (no, actually not you; 'one') might imagine. Every day more lands on my plate than I can do in a day, so it is inevitable that some things take far too long. Sorry.

Please bear with me.

[John]

OK.

[MikeHardman]

Re Viola ?elegantula?

MGS photo notes:
- Yellow eye does not have dark rays (they are further out)
- can't see spur or sepals or stipules on fully open flowers or not well enough

My best reference is Matthias Erben's 1985 work on pansies of SE Europe (1985).
Because that is in German (and my German is poor), my initial pruning-of-the-possibilities is based on distribution; Erben has maps.

He shows these species in Montenegro (pp.722-735):
- V. beckiana (eye/rays and leaves wrong (Erben, 1985, p.454,455)
- V. calcarata ssp. zoysii (eye/rays correct (Erben, 1985, p.450 (b3); usually yellow, but sometimes violet-mauve; Erben's map (p.725) shows sites ~40km SW from the Mrtvica Canyon in Montenegro)
- V. elegantula (eye/rays correct (Erben, 1985, p.635 (a1), Erben's map (p.732) shows sites including the Mrtvica Canyon)
- V. latisepala (eye/rays wrong (Erben, 1985, p.647 (a1))
- V. macedonica ssp. macedonica (eye/rays wrong (Erben, 1985, p.658 (a1))
- V. macedonica ssp. bosniaca (eye/rays wrong (Erben, 1985, p.660 (a1))
- V. orphanidis (eye/rays wrong (Erben, 1985, p.694 (a1))
- V. polyodonta (no photos or useful diagrams found, description not translated from German (Erben, 1985, p.682-685, 734) - hence cannot rule out, but it is noted by Erben from only one locality - near Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, which is ~100km NW from the Mrtvica Canyon in Montenegro)

Similar but ruled out:
- V. schariensis (Albania, dark rays extend into yellow eye)
- V. eugeniae (Italy, eye/rays wrong)
- V. valderia (Italy, eye/rays and leaves wrong)
And I checked many more, which were not so similar.

V. elegantula has, in comparison with V. latisepala and other relatives of V. tricolor:
- more deeply divided stipules
- broader sepals
- longer spur
(Erben, p.630)
John, in this respect, please could you check your earlier (4jul12) photo (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=225.0;attach=4423;image). There is not enough resolution in the version on the forum for me to do so.

Refinement:
- V. elegantula - shortly pubescent throughout, stems 10-20cm long
- V. calcarata ssp. zoysii - compact, short-stemmed; example of purple-flowered form in Montenegro - http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id111939/    
   It is not well-defined, but there is a tendency for the eye of V. c. zoysii to be squarish - which is not the shape in the MGS photos.
If we could see the stipules better it would help (Erben pp.450, 634, 685), in comparison with V. elegantula (broad and fairly deeply divided):
- V. calcarata - narrower and merely slightly toothed
- V. polyodonta - broader and less-divided
Going on Jorun's photo, my feeling is V. elegantula. John, perhaps you could check that, too. Need to look at the originals.

Summary:
- Most likely:     V. elegantula
- Less likely:      V. calcarata ssp. zoysii  /  V. polyodonta

As regards the correct name for the plant, The Plant List (http://www.theplantlist.org) has :
- V. beckiana - 'unresolved name'
- V. calcarata ssp. zoysii - 'unresolved name'
- V. elegantula - 'unresolved name'
- V. latisepala - 'unresolved name'
- V. macedonica - 'unresolved name'
- V. polyodonta - 'unresolved name'
- V. orphanidis - unresolved name'
...Which means just that - they are unresolved because deep enough taxonomic studies have not been done/concluded.
So, for now, the names I have used are as good as any.

Ref:
Matthias Erben, 1985:
'Cytotaxonomische Untersuchungen an Sudosteuropaischen, Viola - Arten der sektion Melanium';
Mitt. Bot. Munchen 21, pp.339-740, 31dec1985;
ISSN 0006-8179
(The estimable Wittrock's works don't help much here.)

[JTh]

Thank you, Mike, that was a very thorough study. My photo was from the same cluster as the one in John's photo. If you say  it's  most likely V.  elegantula, I don't anybody will contest that.

[John]

Mike, as you have gone to this much trouble here are some cropped shots of the details.