Another unknown thistle

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JTh

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Another unknown thistle
« on: December 05, 2014, 04:36:58 PM »
I have looked through all the thistles here and at hundreds of photos on the internet, but can't find any resembling this one, which I saw in the Imbros Gorge last April. The leaves formed a nice rosette, they were shiny green, whiteveined and very spiny. The leaves were thick and stiff, not hairy. No flowers seen. Can anybody help me identifying it?


P4110688.jpg
by JorunT, on Flickr
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

pamela

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 11:47:48 PM »
Hello Jorun ..is it Cirsium eriophorum ?? Just a guess as we have it in Spain
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:51:53 PM by pamela »
Jávea, Costa Blanca, Spain
Min temp 5c max temp 38c  Rainfall 550 mm 

"Who passes by sees the leaves;
 Who asks, sees the roots."
     - Charcoal Seller, Madagascar

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JTh

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 12:53:58 AM »
Thanks for answering, Pamela. At least from photos I have seen, the Cirsium you mentions seems to be hairier than the one I saw, and the shape of the leaves is different.
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

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JTh

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 10:00:46 PM »
Here is another thistle, this one on a path going down from the Omalos plain (Crete). It is a lot spinier than the first one, the incisions of the leaves are much deeper, and the white markings much more conspicious, I wonder if this could be Galactites tomentosa?


P4120772 Another thistle.jpg
by JorunT, on Flickr
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

Umbrian

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 09:16:19 AM »
Hi Jorun, I was going to suggest Galactites tormentosa for the first one.....can you remember/ did you look - the undersides of the leaves should be white if so. I used to grow it in England just for the beauty of the leaves but strangely have never got round to using it here  :)
MGS member living and gardening in Umbria, Italy for past 19 years. Recently moved from my original house and now planning and planting a new small garden.

David Dickinson

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 11:07:17 AM »
Hi Jorun,

Don't know if I am the only person affected by this. I can see the first picture but for the second without a yahoo account I can't open it :)
I have a small garden in Rome, Italy. Some open soil, some concrete, some paved. Temperatures in winter occasionally down to 0°C. Summer temperatures up to 40°C in the shade. There are never watering restrictions but, of course, there is little natural water for much of June, July and August.

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JTh

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 11:34:59 AM »
Can you see it now? Flickr sometimes changes permissions, I don't know why, but it should be publicly available now.
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

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JTh

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 01:32:38 PM »
I have made some cropped images showing more details of the leaves, the top one (1), from the Peloponnes, was preciously identified as Galactites tomentosa by Oron, the second (2) is from the Imbros Gorge, which is the same as the one I started this thread with, and the last one (3) the thistle from Omalos.

1 (G. tomentosa): Spiny, very long vertical spines starting from the central nerve
2: broader lobes, spines much shorter, especially the  vertical spines near the central nerve, very broad at the base. Shiny, leathery leves
3: Longer lobes, very spiny, the vertical spines more well defined but not as long as in 1

1

_DSC7172 Galactites tomentosa spines.jpg
by JorunT, on Flickr

2

P4110689 Thistle Imbros gorge detail.jpg
by JorunT, on Flickr

3

P4120772-Edit Thistle.jpg
by JorunT, on Flickr
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 12:11:06 PM by JTh »
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

David Dickinson

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 11:40:23 AM »
Yes I can see it now. No idea what the thistles are though. Sorry.
I have a small garden in Rome, Italy. Some open soil, some concrete, some paved. Temperatures in winter occasionally down to 0°C. Summer temperatures up to 40°C in the shade. There are never watering restrictions but, of course, there is little natural water for much of June, July and August.

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JTh

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Re: Another unknown thistle
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 12:37:45 PM »
Thanks for looking, anyhow. Nobody else out there?
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.