Cassia fistula

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John J

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Cassia fistula
« on: August 07, 2011, 09:41:07 AM »
The tree in the photos is the only one that I have seen in Cyprus. I believe I know what it is but would like to hear other members opinions to see if they agree. The photos were taken in July.
Cyprus Branch Head. Gardens in a field 40 m above sea level with reasonably fertile clay soil.
"Aphrodite emerged from the sea and came ashore and at her feet all manner of plants sprang forth" John Deacon (13thC AD)

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MikeHardman

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Re: Plant Identification
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 10:11:38 AM »
Lovely tree, John.
I guess it is Cassia fistula, but I don't have any first-hand experience to go on.
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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John J

  • Hero Member
Re: Plant Identification
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 10:54:53 AM »
This time we are in agreement, Mike, as that was what I thought it was too. I also agree that it is a beautiful tree, a pity it isn't mine but is in a garden in Souni village.
Cyprus Branch Head. Gardens in a field 40 m above sea level with reasonably fertile clay soil.
"Aphrodite emerged from the sea and came ashore and at her feet all manner of plants sprang forth" John Deacon (13thC AD)

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Alisdair

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Re: Plant Identification
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 10:58:09 AM »
Lovely to see, John. I'd have thought it would need quite a lot of water, coming from tropical India, and more popular in places like Florida than the Mediterranean?
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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MikeHardman

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Re: Plant Identification
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 12:14:05 PM »
Alasdair, Re water requirements:
I would tend to agree in principle, but I note from the Wiki entry:
"It will grow well in dry climates. Growth for this tree is best in full sun on well-drained soil; it is relatively drought tolerant and slightly salt tolerant."
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassia_fistula)
Also, at least one other member of the genus is drought tolerant: C. nemophila. In Cyprus, this grows unirrigated by roadsides, in motorway central reservations, and in a few gardens.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 06:57:07 PM by Alisdair »
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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John J

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Re: Plant Identification
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 01:22:13 PM »
With regard to the water requirements of this particular tree, I noticed when I stopped the car to take the photos that it was on an irrigation line, however I have no way of knowing how much or how often it is getting water. As Mike says Senna artemisioides (or suspecies thereof) are quite common in Cyprus and thrive without summer water. I have 2 that get virtually no water other than the winter rain.
Cyprus Branch Head. Gardens in a field 40 m above sea level with reasonably fertile clay soil.
"Aphrodite emerged from the sea and came ashore and at her feet all manner of plants sprang forth" John Deacon (13thC AD)

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anita

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 10:43:25 AM »
Looking at the photographs that's definitely C. fistula. From personal experience in Australia I can confirm that C. fistula will withstand very hot climates, if it gets some supplementary water during summer. It does not require enormous amounts of water - I'd say on par with citrus trees.
It is very sensitive to frost however and needs a sheltered spot. I have seen it growing well in Port Augusta, an inland town in South Australia where summer temperatures can stay above 40C for 10 or more days, while winter temperatures could drop below 2C. Initially our neighbour had a single tree that she grew from seed collected in the sub-tropics but my mother grew dozens of others from seed, selling them at school fetes etc and soon there were many growing in the town. The spring flowering was truly spectacular I remember standing under that first tree as a child and the whole world seemed to turn bright daffodil yellow as the sun filtered through the blooms. The leaves are rather attractive too retaining a lovely fresh green color. The trees in Port Augusta however seldom grew more than 3-4 metres high while those I have seen in the sub-tropics around Cairns and Darwin in Australia are more than 10m high. Cheers Anita
Dry mediterranean climate, avg annual rainfall 530mm, little or no frost. Winter minimum 1C, summer max 45C

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Alisdair

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 11:12:27 AM »
A big welcome from us all to Anita, another new forum member from Australia. It's really great to have this extra Australian perspective on mediterranean-climate gardening :) :)
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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MikeHardman

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 09:08:34 AM »
Desmond Meikle, in his 'Flora of Cyprus' includes many introduced ornamentals, among which is Cassia fistula, to which he gives the common name Indian pudding-pipe tree, and describes it as growing to 10m or more.

He also mentions, in Cassia:
- C. artemisioides (which The Plant List regards as separate from C. nemophila, which I have referred to previously in this topic)
- C. didymobotrya
- C. senna (as in senna pods)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 10:30:40 AM by MikeHardman »
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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John

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 09:54:15 AM »
I assume this is the same shrub that I have in "The Flowers of Crete" but thought I'd get everyone to have a look at this. This was planted en-mass by the main highway on the north coast of central Crete. I have it as Senna corymbosa (syn. Cassia corymbosa) from Argentina and Uruguay. It was planted in a very open spot which was baking hot though they were possibly irrigated! I'm not sure now.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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John J

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2011, 10:47:13 AM »
John, your plant is Senna corymbosa (syn Cassia corymbosa) and I would assume that it must be irrigated as mine looks decidedly sorry for itself if deprived of water for any length of time. Unlike Senna artemisioides (syn Cassia artemisioides) that will take being left without water for very long periods.
Cyprus Branch Head. Gardens in a field 40 m above sea level with reasonably fertile clay soil.
"Aphrodite emerged from the sea and came ashore and at her feet all manner of plants sprang forth" John Deacon (13thC AD)

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John

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2011, 12:24:51 PM »
Yes I'm sure they were irrigated now I think of it. Quite crazy irrigating planting along such a long road especially as it comes at the cost of losing the very limited moist habitats on Crete. The planting looks really out of place anyway. It would be more appropriate to restrict ornamental plantings near to urban habitats and obviously with drought tolerant plants.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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John J

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 03:18:32 PM »
A lot of the 'road improvements' that have taken place in Limassol (Lemesos) recently have been totally inappropriate. Central reservations and roadside verges planted with grass, roundabout islands with plants that need irrigation, trees planted under flyovers (even the approach ramps so that they have little or no headroom to start with). Irrigation is either by sprinkler system, sometimes pop-up, or by hoses from water bowsers. The standard excuse is that it is 'recycled' water so what else can be done with it?!!
Cyprus Branch Head. Gardens in a field 40 m above sea level with reasonably fertile clay soil.
"Aphrodite emerged from the sea and came ashore and at her feet all manner of plants sprang forth" John Deacon (13thC AD)

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MikeHardman

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 05:23:57 PM »
This is a plant ID posting, but I'm sure it is a Cassia, and we already have a good bit of momentum on that genus here - so I'm posting it here rather than in the 'plant identification' topic.
It forms a large shrub, up to 2.5m tall in the garden of the friend who gave me this one. It is in good flower now; the photos were taken today. No scent that I can detect. The leaves have 6 leaflets and spend most of their time folded flat, as shown in some of the photos.
ID please!
Mike
Geologist by Uni training, IT consultant, Referee for Viola for Botanical Society of the British Isles, commissioned author and photographer on Viola for RHS (Enc. of Perennials, The Garden, The Plantsman).
I garden near Polis, Cyprus, 100m alt., on marl, but have gardened mainly in S.England

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John J

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Re: Cassia fistula
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2011, 06:44:32 PM »
Are you sure that isn't a Senna corymbosa you have there, Mike? They have 6-8 leaflets and they do tend to fold flat, especially if they are water stressed.
Cyprus Branch Head. Gardens in a field 40 m above sea level with reasonably fertile clay soil.
"Aphrodite emerged from the sea and came ashore and at her feet all manner of plants sprang forth" John Deacon (13thC AD)