[Alevin]

Has anybody out there have experience with less than common pines, that can grow in Med climates? I would like to plant some Mexican pinyons (or related species; they don't need to be edible!) on the hillside: the site conditions are rocky, windy, with excellent drainage and acidic, not too deep soil. I have already set my mind on Pinus maximartinezii, that I saw in a very good nursery. I also like Pinus coulteri - met with some great specimens both here in Ischia and in Rome-  but it is huge, and I am afraid that our rocky conditions would not be ideal for it. On the other side, I would not mind its growth being slowed and checked in size by the nature of the soil. My ideal candidates should be mid-sized or slow growing.
Notwithstanding  that I have little hope to find that many species  in the local nursery trade (local meaning the whole of Italy), and that with some exceptions I will probably have to start from seeds, I am curious to hear your advice and  experiences!

[Alisdair]

I suppose P. patula would be too tall for you? It has such lovely foliage, and such an elegant pyramidal shape. We have one in UK that I grew from seed about 25 years ago, it's now about 10 metres tall and about or nearly that across at the base. I think it would grow more slowly for you on Ischia.

[Alevin]

Well, it is very handsome! I have no experience of P. patula, but I read it does grow tall. I would like it , but i am thorn...

Anyhow, I just called the n. 1 collector of rare conifers in Italy- who is based near Lucca, Tuscany. Namely he owns a nursery, but in truth he rarely sells his plants, and only to people that he thinks are seriously interested and able to take care of his beloved conifers - that he raises from seeds. We had an interesting conversation and he happens to have quite a few of those Mexican pines, so we agreed he will send me a list with his personal recommendations and then I will decide what I want to try.
I must say, we really found we completely share the same attitude towards planting trees. He was just about to explain that the plants he sends around are quite small, when I interrupted him and said that my ideal size would be maximum 1 meter, and the only thing I was interested in was that the plants have a good root system and a well proporrtioned structure - I don't ask for size.
He was very relieved at this  . I imagine that potential clients pester him with requests of well built, nicely sized trees.

I would never plant, on an exposed hillside, grown up trees that need staking and pampering. When Lady Walton planted the Pinus pinea that today tower on the garden, and give it a very welcome half shade (and depth, and proportion, in one world they structure our landscape) they were literally 30 cm tall - after the advice of Russell Page. Page told her that thus the pines would not be affected by the winter gales during their first years, and  could develop a proper root system and send their roots down in the rock crevices, anchoring themselves and allowing for a sturdy future.

[Umbrian]

Not just with trees but also with shrubs and many other perennials, I always recommend planting small especially in a Mediterranean climate where water is a precious commodity and not to be wasted. A large specimen of any subject, often crammed into a pot too small for its size will have roots that are already under stress, probably winding round the pot, which, if not teased out properly will continue in this way and not establish firmly to ensure success. Small specimens establish more readily and top growth is commensurate with root establishment and capability. In gardening, patience is truly a virtue  I think