[JTh]

It would be great if the MGS would start a campaign here. I think we should have a list of what is the absolute minimum, and then another set of what we would really like to have as well. Personally, I should be very happy if every plant was labelled with the correct scientific name; that should be mandatory and then I should be able to find out the rest myself. But not everybody has the same plant knowledge as most of the MGS members, so we should also try to get more basic information on the label. I have added this to my wish list:

Annual/perennial
Height
Sunny/shady
Drought tolerance/water requirements
Soil preferences
Temperature requirements
Time of flowering
If it is poisonous, it should be clearly written

For seeds (additional):
Some information about germination rate, expiry /best before date
When to sow the seeds
Special requirements (light, depth, temperature, pre-treatment)
Time seeds take to germinate

[John J]

Many thanks for that, Jorun, that's excellent, exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. I particularly like your mention of poisonous plants, a warning that is far too often lacking when it comes to plants. Persuading suppliers to adopt any system we may present will, obviously, be a major problem but the more reasonable we make it the more chance of success we may have.

[Alice]

Are we aiming this campaign at wholesalers/importers? I can't see small nurseries (many of which grow some of their own plants) having the knowledge, inclination or resources to provide this service.

For plants I also would be content to have just the scientific name displayed.
In an ideal world a small label can also give information on the following (some of it in the form of an icon):
Common name for the country (if applicable)
Habit (height/spread)
Preferred location (sun/shade)
Minimum temperature tolerated

For seeds:
The information above
Picture
When to sow
Time of flowering or harvest
Any special treatment required for germination
Best before date

[JTh]

I suppose we should start with large-scale producers, importers and wholesalers. I am petty sure that even here in Norway, most the plants you find in the garden centres are produced in other countries, a lot seems to come from the Netherlands and Germany

[Umbrian]

After 6 or so weeks without Internet I am delighted to back and wish all members a very Happy New Year! I have really missed my daily contact with fellow garden enthusiast through the Forum and look forward to being an active member again. The discussion about plant labelling is interesting and I must gather my thoughts!

[John J]

Welcome back, Carole, we've missed your inputs too.
I agree with Jorun that as a first step we should try to identify the major wholesale suppliers in our areas. Here in Cyprus a lot is imported from the Netherlands, also Israel and even Thailand.
I also feel that we should look into recruiting the assistance of other plant societies in our areas that share our views on this matter. The more people we can get involved the stronger the case we can present. The pooling of knowledge, ideas, resources and contacts would be beneficial too. For example, here in Cyprus I know that the Cyprus Cactus & Succulent Society is of a like mind when it comes to the inadequacy of plant labelling. They not only have a fairly large membership for a small island but have established contacts with similar societies in several other countries.

[Umbrian]

The question of plant labelling is a very complicated issue in these days of mass production when the commercial aspect has taken prime position. Specialist growers and nurseries are usually able and willing to provide detailed information but the idea of legislating what exactly should be included on a plant label brings one up against many problems many of which have been mentioned by other posters - how detailed should that information be?, how can the information be displayed succinctly and in a way that is easily understood?, the durability of the labels and the costs involved etc. Keen and relatively well informed gardeners know where to get further information as has been pointed out and it must be acknowledged that "impulse buying" especially of seasonal plants has become big business and often such buyers do not really want to know whether what they are buying will be suitable for their gardens or not. In an ideal world of course good, detailed labels should be attached to all plants but I for,one , like other posters would be satisfied at the moment if the label contained the proper botanical name plus any specific variety or named cultivar  then it is up to the buyer to find whatever further information they need. The "industry" of plant production and selling, as it surely is these days, has been blessed with this possibility and should make full use of it despite those who find the use of "Latin names" elitist.

[Alice]

It would be good if plant suppliers were encouraged to provide correct labelling.
I am certainly against the idea of legislation.

[John J]

This is the label from a plant I acquired a few weeks ago. I believe it came originally from the Netherlands. Opinions please.

[David Bracey]

John it would be tremendous leap forward if we could persuade growers to use a label like this. Clear, simple concise.  We do not need more information.

Of course the Dutch growers will continue to improve on this. That,s why they are the best. They are commercially savy.

Our goal is to encourage local growers to use a label and this will come thru the buyer asking for this information. Then there is the question of supply, language, photo, cost. I would suggest that the MGS sets up a small working group who could, over a given period of time, come up with a set of proposals. 

Could we find a friendly label producer who would add the MGS logo and website?

[JTh]

I believe this has to be attacked from two sides, one directed towards local producers and the other one targeted at large, international producers. Ideally, we may hope that both will follow the same recommendations in the future, but that is not yet realistic.

From the first group, the minimum requirement would be the complete proper scientific name, preferably printed/written on a weatherproof (waterproof and not easily bleached by the sun) label. But they need help to do that, I know that most of the local producers in my area would not be able to this today.

From the second group, there is no excuse for not being able to produce proper label with the necessary information, like the one shown in John’s message yesterday. Even the smallest nurseries I have seen in Greece also sell a lot of these imported plants, most of them from the Netherlands; they are not always properly labelled.

[Umbrian]

I too find, like you Jorun,that many plants imported from The Netherlands are not properly labelled. The producers in that country are certainly commercially savvy as David says but not all of them meticulous in the area of labelling.Go ahead nurseries and Garden Centres in Italy who import plants from the wide selections offered by producers in that country are tempted by good marketing strategies but often have little idea whether the plants they select are suitable for Mediterranean conditions and the labels often seem more designed to attract the attention of would be buyers than in providing good information as to the requirements of the plant. Comments such as "Plant of the Year" , that I came across last year, certainly must help to market them but are really just an advertising ploy.Ideally the leaders in any field should be the one's responsible for good standards in all areas of production including, in this case, good labelling but we all know that when the chance to do business in area that is thriving such responsibilities  are often ignored. We come back to the realisation that producing plants is now "big business" (rather than the pursuit of dedicated horticulturalists ) with all the attendant problems as well as, of course, many benefits such as the greater selections more readily attainable. Inevitably some kind of legislation regarding labels would seem to be the way forward but the practical issues involved are immense.

[David Bracey]

Umbrian you are absolutely correct...." Practical issues involved are immense". We as the MGS have no leverage what ever the rights and wrongs ..or at least asthey are perceived. 

I think we have to work at the local level and demand correct labelling, educate thru the branches, individually be active.  There must be other areaswhere we can have an influence.

[David Dickinson]

I have been following this discussion with interest because, like all of those who have contributed, I find labelling either absent or basic in Rome.

Umbrian's message perhaps contains the seed of one thing we could do as an organisation. I have seen that some of us are opposed to legislation. But the labelling we find on our foodstuffs and clothing etc has all come about through legislation and is a thing which we expect as a matter of course. Thinking along the lines of legislation the organisation could, as has already been suggested above, draw up a list of basic information needed on a plant label and then send out a blanket press release to all euro MPs and potentially interested gardening societies and magazines. This would probably have costs. I have heard that there is a fee to pay if you want to blanket email all UK MPs, for example.

Of course, we need also to be considering the organisation's potential advisory role if euro MPs take the case up. And to this end perhaps we should be looking to ask members to contribute to a data base logging their successes and failures. It would be worse than useless to get the legislation and then find that the information found on the label in Rome, Madrid, Tel Aviv etc was invalid because it was a straight copy of information relevant to northern Europe. For example, hardiness data is very useful but what about heat tolerance? Looking at the literature there is very little information available and this factor would probably count for 90% of my failures.

It would be unfair to criticise producers for not including this information when it is not readily available. We might consider furnishing this information from our hands-on experience. How could producers know, for example, that attempting to grow crocosmia in Rome is almost certainly doomed to failure? I have to keep the one or two that I get to survive in a light space but with no direct sun. Otherwise in summer they burn to a frazzle. Not the information a producer would be giving a purchaser in my home town of Leeds in the UK.

Hope I haven't repeated anything already stated in mailings above. I confess I haven't read all the emails in this chain.

[John J]

Thanks everyone for your responses, a good base for the AC discussions to start from. As Carole has noted, and others have endorsed, the practical issues involved ARE immense, but should that deter us from at least taking a look at the problem and maybe even being able to make a slight improvement? Those who are old enough may remember the ant and the ram in a Frank Sinatra song of the 1950s who managed to carry out impossible tasks because they had 'High Hopes".