Cyclamen

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Alisdair

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Do pigs ever eat cyclamens - "sow-bread"?
« Reply #165 on: August 15, 2012, 10:45:07 AM »
Do pigs ever really eat cyclamens? There is certainly a long-standing traditiion that they do. In medieval times herbalists writing in Latin called the cyclamen panis porcinus, later translated in the 16th century into German saubrot and English sow-bread. The name continued in fairly common use well into the 19th century, and even today cyclamen enthusiasts like to speculate about the sow-bread name coming from Sicilian wild boars digging up cyclamen tubers to eat, and that sort of thing.
This year we have shared with our neighbours three Oxford Sandy & Black pigs - a classic foraging breed. They live in a small patch of woodland where they do indeed forage enthusiastically. They quickly found and have dug up the mature - even venerable - Cyclamen hederifolium tubers in their area. They play with them happily, but show no signs whatsoever of eating them - see photo below, taken this morning. What is true is that the dug-up de-rooted tubers, left on the ground by the pigs as they go on to find something more tasty, do look very like the small flat loaves of bread which have been baked in country areas since time immemorial.
I now believe that it's extremely unlikely that pigs, wild or just free-roaming, ever do or did eat cyclamens, which do after all contain poisonous alkaloids. I think it much more likely that, seeing or hearing about the dug-up tubers left behind by foraging pigs, those early herbalists gave the plant that sow-bread name because of the tubers' bread shape, and because they assumed that the pigs would have eaten them instead of just turning up their noses at them, as in fact they seem to do!
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Alice

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #166 on: August 15, 2012, 11:09:59 AM »
Very interesting, Alisdair.
I have always wondered why cyclamen are also known by the not so romantic name of sow-bread.
I will have to keep pigs well away from these gorgeous little plants!
 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 11:19:04 AM by Alice »
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

Alice

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #167 on: August 15, 2012, 02:42:56 PM »
Perhaps cyclamen tubers smell like truffles to pigs (?)
I understand that truffles are dug up (and devoured given half a chance) by sows only. It is thought this is because truffles produce a chemical almost identical to a male pig pheromone.
Which leads to the question: are your pigs female, Alisdair?
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #168 on: August 15, 2012, 03:16:33 PM »
Two male, one female. They are all equally happy to dig them up, and equally uninterested in eating them. The female, incidentally (the one in the picture) is the most intelligent of the three.  ;)
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Joanna Savage

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #169 on: August 15, 2012, 03:56:45 PM »
This garden in Toscana was plagued by  devastation by wild boar until a fence was erected to keep them out. However I have observed what goes on outside the fence as they circle the fence and try to dig their way back in. It seems they will try to uproot almost anything and any stone is moved in the hope of finding a succulent morsel beneath it. The only plants which seem to escape are tough grasses and Cyclamen. I was surprised as I had heard that the wild boar loved cyclamen , but that is not the case here.

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Marilyn

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #170 on: September 04, 2012, 02:23:18 PM »
Very interested to read these accounts of the pigs' behaviour, and thoughts on the origin of the sow-bread name! Do the cyclamen, once uprooted, show signs of stress or delay? Or do they just carry on regardless? Presumably the latter, if they are among the few things thriving beyond Joanna's boundary fence.

I saw masses of Cyclamen purpurascens in flower all over the place during last month's travels in Eastern Europe; I shall post some photos when we have sorted through them. I was reading their profile on the Cyclamen Society website, which can be seen here - http://www.cyclamen.org/purp_set.html - and it correlates exactly with my experience. Especially abundant in beech woods and on limey soils; often highly perfumed; with particularly deep-coloured forms around Lake Bled in Slovenia, which is where we saw them first. Some of the most wonderful colonies were in the woods around the Plitvice Lakes in Croatia; carpets of very variably-coloured flowers, the scent wafting on the morning air and discernable even to my nose, which was at the time afflicted by a stinking cold... :)
I work in hotel and private gardens, promoting sustainable landscape management in the mediterranean climate through the use of diverse, beautiful and appropriate plants. At home, I garden on two balconies containing mostly succulents.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #171 on: September 04, 2012, 07:58:50 PM »
Looking forward to hearing more about your Croatia travels, Marilyn!
Those uprooted cyclamen - depends how brutally they've been uprooted. If they're just sitting on the surface as little rootless "breads", then when their flowering season comes around they bravely try to put out a few flowers (like the poor rootless dried-out wild-dug tubers that one still occasionally finds in garden centres) and may also put out leaves - too early in the season for us to tell yet. If they have some root connection with the soil still, then they behave rather more as normal.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Joanna Savage

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #172 on: September 05, 2012, 06:33:45 AM »
I have been able to transfer dormant cyclamen which have been uprooted by the wild boar  successfully to the garden. My neighbours refer to  the bulbs/corms/ whatever they are, as potatoes.

After 30mm of rain last week the first three spontaneous Cyclamen hederifolium flowers have appeared. It is such a rewarding plant , it will provide interest until the leaves die away in about April.

Daisy

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #173 on: September 06, 2012, 08:20:17 AM »
I don't have any species cyclamen, but last year I bought some Miracle Cyclamen from the local supermarket.
They flowered all winter and spring and in early summer I planted them out in the garden. I put them in the darkest, shadiest, places under the citrus trees.
They started flowering again a few weeks ago.
Daisy :)

Amateur gardener, who has gardened in Surrey and Cornwall, England, but now has a tiny garden facing north west, near the coast in north east Crete. It is 300 meters above sea level. On a steep learning curve!!! Member of both MGS and RHS

Alice

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #174 on: September 06, 2012, 04:14:52 PM »
I recently bought these cyclamen, labelled "Mini cyclamen mini wine" from a nursery near London. They are small plants (the size of C. hederifolium) and, I thought, very attractive. Alisdair, you probably know their parentage?
I had to net them, though, as some unknown creature - pigeon, squirrel, fox?- kept digging them up (in our London garden, I may add).
It would be nice to take some tubers to Paros and try them there.
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #175 on: September 06, 2012, 07:09:13 PM »
I don't know the parentage, but someone else may. They do look to me like one of the hybrids now being produced by Dutch firms such as Schoneveld, some of which are vegetatively propagated instead of being raised from seed.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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oron peri

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #176 on: September 07, 2012, 10:34:40 PM »
Alice

Your Cyclamen is a new cultivar  belonging to series Snowridge F1, named 'Mini Wine', it is grown from seeds and distributed worldwide by Syngenta.
It is said to be more resistent to Botrytis, therefore sutible for growing outside.
Any way being a Cyclamen persicum cultivar it probably would not live long in Paros or any where else, but one can never know, it might be a surprise..
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 10:44:14 PM by oron peri »
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Alice

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #177 on: September 08, 2012, 12:12:05 AM »
Thanks, Oron. I will leave them in their London home and hope they survive.
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #178 on: September 09, 2012, 09:24:39 AM »
Daisy you do have a cyclamen species as Oron confirms. To date all of the florists cyclamen are Cyclamen persicum.
Though some experiments have been conducted to produce true hybrids using (I believe) embryo rescue I don't think any have been produced commercially.
The weakness of many modern seed strains is that they grow fast with the result that they often don't produce a decent tuber. This obviously suits the growers because you have to buy more next season.
I have an old diploid cultivar I bought about 20 years ago or more which is still thriving with quite a large tuber now.
In your garden they may grow away and establish themselves quite happily from what I have seen of your cultivation.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 09:32:46 AM by John »
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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jo

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #179 on: September 10, 2012, 10:21:19 AM »
Now I'm off to Italy on Thursday,  south of Naples,  will I be able to find Cyclamen hederifolium to photograph down there ?  Can anyone suggest any good places to visit for other Autumn flowers ?