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Mystery SP. ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna then corrected to Aster subulatus

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Umbrian

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Mystery SP. ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna then corrected to Aster subulatus
« on: August 13, 2013, 06:55:59 AM »
Can someone help me out please? In the late spring when I was replanting a large iron planter that I use to enjoy bulbs during the winter and seasonal summer plants that need water, I came across a small plant, the leaves of which I did not recognise . At that point there were two well developed leaves - mid/dark green with a distinctive white/silver central vein (apart from the vein they somewhat resembled the basal leaves of some orchids). I was intrigued and so left it in situ to see what developed. Now I have a well branched, robust plant well over 100cm tall that so far shows no signs of flowering and I am beginning to think I have been cultivating what most of us would regard as a weed! I am afraid it is rather difficult to get a good 'photo as it is in front of a central dwarf olive that is trimmed into a ball but I am hoping somebody can enlighten me since it is obviously out growing its welcome and can be removed unless something unusual  ???
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:36:47 PM by oron peri »
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MGS member living and gardening in Umbria, Italy for past 19 years. Recently moved from my original house and now planning and planting a new small garden.

Umbrian

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Re: Mystery plant
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 06:58:07 AM »
Sorry, that is a hopeless 'photo - will try to take a better one today :-[
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MGS member living and gardening in Umbria, Italy for past 19 years. Recently moved from my original house and now planning and planting a new small garden.

Alice

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Re: Mystery plant
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 10:22:09 AM »
I wonder if it is some sort of stock. Matthiola incana?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:24:24 AM by Alice »
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oron peri

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Re: Mystery plant
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 04:24:25 PM »
Carole,

Looking at its growth habit and leaves it looks like a nerrow leaf form of Lactuca saligna, should flower in September -October.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 04:33:12 PM by oron peri »
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Alisdair

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Re: Mystery plant
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 05:16:46 PM »
I am continually amazed by you, Oron!  :) :)
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 06:29:09 PM »
Have to agree with Alisdair, Oron, after posting such a dreadful 'photo. I think you may well have hit the nail on the head regards family although my reference book (Mediterranead Wild Flowers -Blamey and Grey Wilson) states that the Latuca family have "copious milky latex"  which my plant does not have!? However the growth does resemble what I have always called "Lamb's Lettuce" since I was a child and which common name I cannot find anywhere,- a very prolific weed in The UK and here in Italy- in cultivated places. I think I shall have to be patient and wait until it flowers, even if it is spoiling my planter, because now I am really curious to know what exactly it is! In the meantime I have cut a branching stem off and tried to take a better 'photo ::)
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Alisdair

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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 07:01:59 PM »
Lactuca saligna does have white latex.  ???
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Alisdair Aird
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oron peri

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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 07:53:36 PM »
Ok, so i was so curious that  i went out to look for a plant at darkness on the side of a road near by and maneged to find one,
curiosly it doesnt have the milky sap as well! [attached a photo]

Now the question is if it produces the sap at flowering and fruiting time [to protect it self against insects] or is it that this Lactuca species doesnt produce any...??
I will check some more plants tomorrow and will keep an eye on it through the seoson.
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Living and gardening in Tivon, Lower Galilee region, North Israel.
Min temp 5c Max 42c, around 450mm rain.

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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2013, 06:16:23 AM »
Beyond the call of duty Oron but your plant does seem to resemble mine very closely and so it seems as if we shall both be keeping on eye on them to see what colour flowers they produce. Really appreciate your interest - many thanks :)
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Alisdair

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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 07:42:51 AM »
Really very interesting, this! Tropicos, the Flora maintained by the Missouri Botanical Garden, unequivocally maintains that L. saligna does have white latex - as you can see by clicking here.
If it does emerge that the latex is seasonal, as Oron suggests, then that's something we should communicate to Missouri. Ditto, if these Mediterranean plants are a subspecies that never has latex!
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Alisdair Aird
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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2013, 12:58:28 PM »
What have I started! Could be interesting so will continue to pamper my "weed" although it is somewhat spoiling the appearance of my planter  ;) The reason for keeping it in the first place was that I just did not recognise the leaves and one never knows what might have been imported as seeds in compost etc.
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oron peri

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Re: Mystery plant ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2013, 03:28:56 PM »
Hold it...!

I must correct my self,

After looking at some plants around here i got to the conclusion that it is not Lactuca salinga but Aster subulatus, it has similar appearence but after all a different genus. This explains the absent milky sap.

Aster subulatus is an invasive plant from north America.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 06:30:00 PM by oron peri »
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Garden Designer, Bulb man, Botanical tours guide.
Living and gardening in Tivon, Lower Galilee region, North Israel.
Min temp 5c Max 42c, around 450mm rain.

Umbrian

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Re: Mystery SP. ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna then corrected to Aster subulatus
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2013, 07:15:43 AM »
Again, many thanks Oron, you may well have hit the nail on the head with your second indentification. I have been trolling through various websites re Aster subulatus and think my mystery plant may well indeed be that. Shall still let it come to fruition and flower (hopefully) just to be sure ;)
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Alisdair

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Re: Mystery SP. ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna then corrected to Aster subulatus
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2013, 07:37:23 AM »
Great stuff, Oron!
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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Re: Mystery SP. ID'd by Oron as Lactuca saligna then corrected to Aster subulatus
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 04:23:21 PM »
Oron, I am pleased to say that my Aster subulatus has at last started to flower and I have taken a 'photo of it - with great difficulty as the flowers are so small. Now I can get rid of it (you did say it was a weed!). It has spoiled the look of my planter all summer long but I was determined to see it in flower. It has reached a height of 165cm and keeled over somewhat - quite an eyesore really ::)
Interesting to get the ID though and provoke a bit of discussion on the forum. Thank you :)
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MGS member living and gardening in Umbria, Italy for past 19 years. Recently moved from my original house and now planning and planting a new small garden.
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