Plants from seed

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Alice

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Plants from seed
« on: February 02, 2013, 03:37:25 PM »
I am thinking of growing the following plants from seed:
Celtis australis, Chilopsis linearis, Indigofera tinctoria, Jasminum fruticans, Knautia arvensis, Paeonia mascula and Phlomis purpurea.
Do any members have experience with these plants in their gardens?
Also, any tips concerning the germination of Bupleurum and the Bignoniaceae? I have not had much success in the past.
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

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Alisdair

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 04:55:12 PM »
Alice, I can see why you made this a new topic instead of putting your question in the Germination thread, but depending on the answers we may eventually join it up with that thread.
Bupleurum may need low temperatures for germination. Norman Deno the famous germination researcher got excellent results for B. aureum and rotundifolium and fairly good ones for B. spinosum at 5 deg C, but poor to very poor at 21 deg. He found B. ranunculoides did better at 70 deg, though, and B. longifolium seemed to need two cycles of alternating warm and cool three-month "seasons". Make of that what you will!
(Of the particular plants you mention, our own limited experience with Phlomis purpurea in the unwatered part of our hot south-facing Greek garden is so far not very encouraging, but the plants are at least hanging on. Jasminum fruticans grows strongly, but our plant was given a good start with summer irrigation in its first three years.)
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Trevor Australis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 10:49:37 PM »
I have grown many peony sp. from seed. They need a cold damp - warm damp cycle to germinate. I've used the slow way out in the frost over winter and then in normal spring conditions but this can involve a year-long wait before seeing any signs of growth. Using the veg tray at the bottom of the 'fridge for a month followed by sitting the pot (in a plastic bag to keep my wife happy about cleanliness) on top of the 'fridge at the back where the warm air from the heat exchange unit flows up for another month oftn speeds the process. The cold phase doesn't produce any visible impact but by the end of the warm phase the first root should have emerged and show at the bottom of the seed pot. The top growth of first leaves should appear some weeks later by which time I have moved the pots into a sheltered but well lit area that I use as a very amareurish 'nursery'.  tn

 ??? Does anyone know if the Species Peony International Network still operates? It was begun many years ago by Leo Fernig (Switzerland) and myself.
M Land. Arch., B. Sp. Ed. Teacher, traveller and usually climate compatible.

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Alisdair

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 09:58:00 AM »
Trevor, I don't think SPIN has been active for several years now.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Trevor Australis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 05:12:11 AM »
 :) Ah, well them's the breaks. With the range of MGS members the society should have the potential to collect and distribute peony seed  via the seed exchange, or are they now listed under CITES agreements on conservation? tn
M Land. Arch., B. Sp. Ed. Teacher, traveller and usually climate compatible.

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Alisdair

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 11:15:06 AM »
Trevor, I don't think any peony species are CITES-protected, but I do know that in the Balkans and probably elsewhere around the Mediterranean several are quite heavily protected by local conservation laws.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Alice

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 01:59:58 PM »
Thank you, Alisdair and Trevor, for your replies.
Jasminum fruticans does seem worth growing, and possibly Phlomis purpurea.
I will try again with Bupleurum fruticosum, experimenting with various techniques (cold stratification, gibberellic acid etc). The one plant I managed to grow from seed succumbed in the heat of its first summer. Pity, as I would love to have this plant in the garden.
The Mediterranean peonies (P. mascula seed from Chiltern's) are well worth a try, I think, in spite of germination difficulties.
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

Trevor Australis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 04:53:42 AM »
In the cliff face where Heidi Gildemeister's Torre de Ariant estate runs down the the coast on Mallorca I have seen Paeonia cambessedesii growing out of deep scree rubble. There was also Cyclamen sp ? growing the same conditions. Heidi and I tried to follow the leaf stalk back through the rubble to the bulb but gave up when we had removed so many loose rocks we feared the scree slope would collapse on us and block the narrow track down to their swimming rock. It was a very exposed spot in full sun. Both plants are very hardy. tn
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 01:19:23 PM by Alisdair »
M Land. Arch., B. Sp. Ed. Teacher, traveller and usually climate compatible.

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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 10:11:49 PM »
I've just noticed that no-one has mentioned growing Celtis australis from seed. It's very easy if the way they self seed all over my daughter's garden is anything to go by. If she hasn't pulled this year's crop out I can save you a few seedlings. The mother tree is 3-4 storeys high, but the babies I planted here on shallow soil are struggling to reach 3 metres after 11 years.
MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece

Alice

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 04:55:38 PM »
Thanks for your comments about Celtis australis, Fleur.
From what you say, it seems an easy one but, like most plants, appreciates deeper soil.
Amateur gardener who has gardened in north London and now gardens part of the year on the Cycladic island of Paros. Conditions: coastal, windy, annual rainfall 350mm, temp 0-35 degrees C.

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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 08:58:04 AM »
To continue with this subject, I thought I might help Sally to increase the number of Australian natives in the Sparoza garden by trying to grow some of the seeds Chantal is offering. I've ordered: Hakea francisiana, Dodonaea sinuolata, Enchylaena tomentosa, Thomasia, Diplarrena moraea. Does anyone have any experience of germinating these and are there any other Australian plants that are easy from seed that I could give a try? Ideally I'd like to grow grey/silver leafed plants which I have a feeling would fit in more effectively.
MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece

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Alisdair

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 10:07:35 AM »
Pacific Bulb Soc recommends treating Diplarrena with potassium nitrate before sowing.
The Hakea is probably very intolerant of phosphorus in the compost.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Trevor Australis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 11:03:20 PM »
Maybe smoke-water would be one methods of stimulating germination. Maybe Alisdair attended the session in Adelaide about how to do it? O/wise google it for detailed info. It works on some Sth African genera too.  tn
M Land. Arch., B. Sp. Ed. Teacher, traveller and usually climate compatible.

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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 08:46:28 AM »
Thanks to you both. By Googling smoke-water I found the Australian Native Plant Society page about propagation from seed which should give me plenty to try. http://asgap.org.au/seed.html
MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece

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Alisdair

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Re: Plants from seed
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 10:20:02 AM »
Trevor, I did attend the excellent propagation demo in Adelaide that Matt Coulter gave, but he didn't go into smoke water.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society