The MGS Forum
Plants for mediterranean gardens => Trees and Shrubs => Topic started by: Sandra on June 02, 2012, 08:18:46 PM
-
I have just acquired small and as yet, not in leaf, frangipani for my Greek garden. What do I do with it? Should I keep it in a pot or find a suitable spot in the garden? I understand they need lots of sun and just enough water to stay moist but apart from that I know nothing! Can anyone help?
-
Though this is by nature a small tree you can keep it in a pot, and might find it easier to manage in a pot.
It's a tropical plant, growing most vigorously from midsummer into autumn, when its water needs are highest - the very opposite of mediterranean conditions, which is why you rarely see this Plumeria growing well in mediterranean gardens (we did see it growing very happily on Ischia, in the subtropical paradise of La Mortella).
So if you kept it in a pot you would be able to give it plenty of water and sun in its summer growing period, and keep it dry and warmly sheltered in winter.
-
Some tropical plants grow well in the mediterranean climate, and even look better than in their natural habitat (e.g. Bougainvillea). It doesn't seem to be the case with Plumeria though. But if you follow Alisdair's advise successfully, hopefully your Frangipani can have a happy long life in a pot.
See picture of a Frangipani in Congo (not the nicest i've seen) that must be >50 years old... It was a place full of mango trees, teck trees (Tectona grandis), the aptly-baptised Hura crepitans,... and other forest trees I didn't have the luxury to identify.
NB: I saw a lot of tropical plants grow fantastically well in Rhodes by the way, but I can't remember of Frangipani in particular.
-
Our neighbour on the Greek island of Paros has a whole forest of them (over 100 plants) growing in the soil. He waters them once a week in summer. The garden is within a few metres of the sea, so it gets no frost. Occasionally branches break off in high winds.
The flowers are very attractive and the scent heady but the the plant comes late into leaf (end of May - beginning of June) and for many months is not very attractive - bare fleshy trunk and branches.
-
Alice, this has been my experience of them as well. I have one in my garden, placed in a little sunny hollow behind a building, in a patch of half-decent soil (rare in my garden) about 200m from the sea but protected from the wind. I bought it in the autumn of 2010, and upon planting, it rapidly lost its leaves and did not get them back for many months (I did wonder whether it had given up, but the trunks remained firm). It put on healthy leaves last year, eventually, but no flowers. This year, the same pattern so far, the leaves have only just come out in the last week, and it remains to be seen whether it gives a flower. It gets watered twice a week, though I plan to reduce this once it is established.
It seems to take a long time to make up its mind, but I am hoping the wait will be worth it. I have seen a couple in local front gardens that look utterly fabulous and happy - many-branched, full of big leaves - so time will tell if those are isolated examples (pumped full of water and fertilizer) or not. I am trying to imagine something that could clothe the lower branches while they are bare, but that would not detract from those lovely leaves once they appear. Perhaps a summer-deciduous clematis, which could be strategically pruned or woven into the branches at leaf-out, so it would remain hidden over summer, but give leaves, flowers and interest in the winter? C. napaulensis comes to mind. However I have just checked out the spec for this species and it gets rather large - 5m - so will perhaps get too big for its boots in a frangipani...
-
Marilyn, trying to grow something to soften your plumeria's harsh outline sounds like a good idea.
The plumerias here get a lot of sun, are protected from the prevailing north winds (what got 2-3 of them was a freak south-easterly) and are quite heavily mulched. Otherwise they don't get any artificial fertilisers or other special treatments. Their average height is 1.2 metres (4ft).
They are just coming into flower now, and most plants are full of buds.
-
Plumerias on Paros, June 2012
-
Lovely pictures, Alice, thanks! Bringing that warm tropical fragrance into a cold, wet, grey morning here in the UK.
-
Glorious! Thanks for sharing, Alice. Mine still have rather small leaves and no flowers, but since the temperature has only really moved up in the last couple of weeks, I will give them a bit more time. :)
-
I have a Frangipani too. Mine, at the moment, has quite big leaves and I am waiting everyday for the buds to appear. They are terribly difficult in a coastal mediterranean climate in the garden but I keep persevering. It flowered very well in the first years but after a 'cold' i.e. around 2-4 degrees at night winter 2 years ago it seemed to sulk (certainly last year when I had only one bloom of about 5 flowers). But being the optimist that I am, I hope for bigger and better things this year. We will see!! My Stephanotis floribunda does not look too wonderful as well,yet...but it's early days. Late July is its time.
I cannot resist planting and nurturing these 'sub tropicals' I have quite few. They are so lovely.
-
My Frangipani..............
-
Beautifully grown! You look as if you've managed to get plenty of moisture/humidity around it there, Pamela?
-
Thanks Alisdair! Marilyn. I have 'wrapped' the lovely Salvia discolor around my Plumeria. It's very delicate, evergreen and slow growing (for me) with nearly black flowers and blueish leaves. It doesn't overwhelm the small tree.
-
Beautiful frangipani, Pamela! I have one from El JardÃn, the nursery not far from you (I think). I doubt it will ever look as good as yours, but I can hope :)
-
Thanks Fleur!
-
Pamela, and anyone else who wants to correct a mistake in one of their posts - you can do so at any time by clicking on Modify at the top of your post, making the change and them clicking on Save at the bottom. The Moderators will try to keep a check on plants names and correct the spelling if necessary.
-
To add a bit more to these accumulating notes on Frangipani...
Last year, I bought a deep pink one.
I dug a large hole, spiked the bottom, filled with a good mix of native soil (mainly mineral) and bought compost (mainly organic), mulched with gravel, kept irrigated.
Result...
It has been trying to open a few flowers, and the leaf buds have expanded a bit, but it is still (at the end of July) almost bare. See photos.
I presume my irrigation is insufficient (I don't want to disturb the roots by doing much excavation to find out); I shall increase it (and hope the problem was not over-watering).
...Unless somebody tells me otherwise...
I hope to be able to post photos showing its revival!
Mike
-
Hello Mike, I wonder if the problem might be low relative humidity. I think of frangipani as being tropical or subtropical shrubs and trees thriving in humid conditions.
Incidentally , when wondering if there is a connection between the French almond tart, frangipane, and the frangipani plant, I read that there was a French Marquis Frangipane, a perfumier. The newly described Frangipani had such a beautiful scent it was named after him.
-
Mike, Joanna has a point, also you may find that they like the conditions to be slightly acidic. I don't know what your winter conditions are like but they won't stand frost or cold and wet for very long, especially if the soil isn't free draining.
-
Thanks both.
The plant got blasted by cold over winter, but it seems suprisingly intact, at least above ground.
Humidity: well like many plants in Cyprus in summer, it gets a daily roasting in a fan-assisted oven. The thing is ... look at those young leaves. There is no sign of distress, apart from being late/slow to emerge.
Freeness of drainage is tricky to answer. The soil is a variably-pebbly marl, quite well compacted in this spot. There is a chance that the planting hole I dug is something of a sump. But, again, if it is waterlogged down below, I'd expect to see some sign of distress in the leaves. There is a possibility, however, that it was waterlogged for a while over autumn-spring, causing its roots to rot, and now its growth could be curtailed by that.
I appreciate your thoughts.
Further on names...
Plumeria is named after Charles Plumier, royal botanist to King Louis XIV of France. Although not mentioned much these days, in his time he was an important contributor to botanical knowledge (he discovered Fuchsia and was prodigious in his works), as elucidated here
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Plumier
Mike
-
Mike, the first photo is of our small Frangipani. It's in full sun during the first part of the day so I have planted ground cover under it to try to help keep its roots cooler. The second photo is of a successful cutting from it. The ones that were watered regularly all rotted with the first signs being a softening of the stem before they succumbed completely. This one was watered in well and then left to dry out before being watered again, and so on.
-
Thanks John; good to know.
My plant has, at last, perked up - more flowers, and leaves expanding.
Hopefully it will get into gear and make some new wood before it shuts down for winter.
Mike
-
I acquired this variety many years ago from a dear gardener friend, now deceased. I've never seen it again in any collections. I've always been curious as to the cultivar name. It's developed into quite a lovely small tree.
-
That's a new one to me, too
-
It is Plumeria rubra 'Scott Pratt'. Originated in Hawaii, it is one of the darkest forms and one of the parents of quite a few cultivars.
-
Great Oron,
My dear friend Alberta thanks you and so do I. It's satisfying to finally have an identification.
You're correct, blossoms can be quite dark, darker than pictured. It also seems to have a different fragrance than others, rich and earthy, but pleasant.
I've noted it doesn't strike quite so easily as others. I'm going to experiment this Winter with some quite large cuttings as I need to lift the canopy. I've got my fingers crossed. I'm not one that goes to heroics when attempting propagation.
Best wishes, Robert