The MGS Forum
Plants for mediterranean gardens => Bulbs (including other geophytes with corms, tubers, rhizomes etc) => Topic started by: John on December 01, 2011, 01:02:33 PM
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Charybdis maritima is the more recent name for Drimia maritima which used to be Urginia maritima! From memory it was explained that a major difference is the bulb structure where the scales are produce in a different way to the other two genera!
To complicate things further Cretan plants are tetraploid with 2n = 40 and those restricted to the western Med are hexaploid with 2n = 60. This may make the Cretan plants another species, Charybdis aphylla or another and the western ones true C. maritima! Another job for a botanist.
Perhaps just calling them sea squills will do.
The first two pictures are taken in the NW of Crete and the last on the SW coast near Hora Sfakion where they occur in large numbers. I have a couple of clones from Crete in pots which needless to say take up a lot of room, but they do flower for me when looked after well.
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When did this happen? I was told last week that "Drimia" was the last word, and thought it was a shame,because I liked "Urginea". Now "Charybdis" is more interesting.... could it be that those in charge of nomenclature are aquiring some imagination and going beyond unpronounceable latinised derivatives of peoples surnames. If so, Charybdis must be a mythological reference to the monsters "Scylla and Charybdis" because of the scillalike appearance of the flower.
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The sea squills do look a bit monsterous in John last photo, they made the hair on my neck stand up.
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The last picture was taken just as the light was fading and was almost spooky. Even so there was too much air movement as is not unusual on Crete.
Apparently Charybdis is from Greek mythology and is a whirlpool? No doubt there are one or two of you out there who will take this one up! Please confirm Charybdis?
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John is jumping the gun. Charybdis maritima is currently judged by Kew and Missouri Bot Garden to be a synonym of Drimia maritima - so at least for the moment that's a bit of a victory against those taxonomists who seem so keen to accelerate the pace of plant name changes!
So we'll keep the Drimia name for this forum.
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He might have changed his mind but it was the botanist from Missouri that told me to call it Charybdis maritima and explained why!
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John, Your Mobot informant (?Nick Turland) was probably referring to a paper published earlier this year which included the Charybdis name in an account of the plants of Gavdopoula, one of the Greek islands (Nick was one of the authors). But Rafael Govaerts at Kew has at least for the moment rejected that as a synonym, leaving Drimia as the official Plant List name. Let's hope it stays that way!
In any event, it is a grand plant. It's abundant in the "managed wilderness" part of our Greek garden, where everything is so dry this year that by the end of November many of the bulbs hadn't even started sprouting, and the only one with leaves more than a few centimetres long was in deep shade.
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It was Nick but it was Nick that called it Charybdis in our book 'Flowers of Crete' about 8 years ago. Botanists!
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I didn't even realise it was no longer Urginea! :o ::)
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We could just make a new name up for it ourselves with the authority of the MGS!
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What amazing photos of Drimia maritima in the wild. Have just received some of the huge fat bulbs today so I can begin to imagine what they might produce.
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Jo
When you plant the bulb leave its 'nose' [1-2cm] above ground, it functions as a thermometer.
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Thank you, will do.
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Just discovered this thread - lovely stuff. It is one of my favourites (although I was also unaware that it had changed from Urginea!), one of those that has "grandfather rights" (i.e. it was one of the first plants to take my eye when I moved to Portugal; it was September and there were masses of them on the cliffs). Here is a picture from one of those walks:
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Bolanthus gave us a charming account of the autumn flowers on Hymettus this year. In passing he mentioned the sea squill, which I think is Urginea maritima. My plant which is about 15 years old, was grown from seed from Puglia and usually produces two or more white flowering spikes. So I assumed there was a problem, perhaps I should be dividing it but I really love the sculptural quality of the massed bulbs and the new leaves (and the flowers if there are any). I was delighted to read Caroline Harbouri in the Journal, no.70 p.8, where she comments on the lack of Urginea flowers at Sparoza.
So maybe our hot dry summer was the cause. Nevertheless, I have been forced to look more closely at the plant and find that the central old large bulbs are being lifted up out of the ground. The red kitchen scissors in the third photo show how deep a hole has now been created naturally under these old bulbs. What is the strategy of the plant, tossing the old bulbs out to perish or to start a new colony?
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and here are two more shots of the Urginea, the third shows the red handles of the scissors
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Joanna, Current thinking is that the correct name for this wonderful plant is Drimia maritima, and that Urginea maritima is a synonym of that correct name. (Yes, we all weary of the changes those taxonomists inflict on us!)
So I've changed the title of your postings and merged them into this existing thread on the plant.
Thanks for those very clear pictures, and for posing this conundrum - presumably it's not just the bulbs being kind to those who lift them, wrap them in silver paper, and sell them in markets before Christmas!
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Back to Drimia and a big surprise to see the first flower appearing about a month earlier than usual. Perhaps the almost daily thunderstorms and lowish max.temps, c.30 are responsible. These are unusual weather conditions. It doesn't seem that the appearance of the flower is a response to daylength. Now I wait to see if any more of the fat bulbs begin to flower.
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Urginea/Drimia about to flower in our garden in Central Victoria,
cheers
fermi
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We rescued some bulbs from a construction site a few years ago but all they had produced to date was foliage, then this morning my wife called me into the garden to see this.
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Pleased to see this morning that our Sea Squill is making a return appearance.
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Drimia maritima is in bloom in our garden in 2 places - a few years ago the clump was disrupted by a back hoe when we were having some earthworks done. A lot of the bulbs were split in two but they eventually recovered and a few bulbs were planted in a separate place,
cheers
fermi
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Visited the Royal Botanic Gardens in Melbourne today and saw their Drimia are still in flower (and still labelled Urginea!)
cheers
fermi
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The Drimia is coming into flower very early this season!
cheers
fermi
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The first spike is now in bloom with more to come
cheers
fermi
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I should've taken a pic a few days ago when these were at their peak, but they still look pretty good today
cheers
fermi
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A few months later the Drimia are in full leaf
cheers
fermi