The MGS Forum
Gardening in mediterranean climates => General Cultivation => Topic started by: GillP on October 08, 2011, 02:53:07 PM
-
Fabulous colour but in the Languedoc, S France, I find that it requires more summer irrigation than I am prepared to give!
LATER NOTE ADDED BY ALISDAIR: this posting was prompted by John Fielding's posting on Salvia patens, which you can see by clicking here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=417).
-
A big welcome from our forum to Gill, a plantswoman whose specialist nursery (http://www.lapetitepepiniere.com/) is very popular with MGS members in France.
We grow Salvia patens in the UK but have decided against taking plants to Greece - too hot and dry in summer for it.
-
I thought when posting this that these replies would come up. I realise that there are plenty of plants that will always need irrigation in a mediterranean climate but that on a small scale gardeners will want to grow. I assume that we are not expecting no irrigation at all from our members even at Sparoza!
If I did live in the Med I would probably want at least a small oasis of green (and flowers) say in a sheltered courtyard where I could grow a few such plants if they were happy there.
So I suppose I am saying that I think it is OK to post such material and then warn about the difficulty of cultivation and possible substitutes.
Another aspect of species such as this is there possible use in hybridising to produce more drought resistant plants.
-
John, we'd never want to stop you putting your gorgeous pictures of interesting/beautiful plants on the forum, but let's remember that it is really a mediterranean plants and gardens forum, and that the ideal plants for it are ones which thrive naturally in a mediterranean climate instead of finding it hostile, and don't need much summer watering, if any. ;)
-
Yes Ok, but I am bound to stray outside the box! I can't help it!!!!!
-
Naughty boy :o
-
Sorry to interfere....
You are both right...
It is true that the MGS should be the first to give an example of growing plants with no use or a minimum
use of water.
But i also understand John that would like to grow plants that need more water and
personally i dont see a problem with it if it is done on a small scale [Or if you live in England..].
The sad fact is that very few people like our members really take this matter seriously.
Looking around the Eastern Mediterranean, where we would have probably be limited to grow only Succulent and catus as we have a dry seoson that last for almost 8 months now, but the fact is that when people finally can affored themselvs to buy a privat house with a garden they really feel like having a super blooming garden.
Probably 90% of the gardens are watered regularly some to the point they transform to a tropical climat.
I feel there is a very long process a head of us and it will still take many years to educate people differently.
-
To take up Oron's topic of water in the Eastern Med. A few years ago at one of the UNDP sponsored lectures I attended the speaker, who had been studying climate change on the island for years, spoke about the gradually increasing temperatures and the decreasing precipitation. When he answered questions at the end his response to a query about how Cyprus would look in the future was along the lines of:- "If you want to know what Cyprus will look like in 2050 look at Cairo, in 2075 look at Bahrein". Obviously not something that we'll be around to see but a grim outlook for our children and grandchildren.
-
Water pricing doesn't always help to show people the true cost of using large amounts, either. Our water in Greece costs less per cubic metre than our metered water does in this part of the UK.
(If we go on in this vein we're going to have to split this topic and move chunks of it to a general discussion about water use....)
-
Yes by all means do move the relevant portion across. At least we're back on track!
-
"If you want to know what Cyprus will look like in 2050 look at Cairo, in 2075 look at Bahrein".
Obviously he was a maniatic optimistic. As things go, we WILL see it.
-
I think the replies regarding watering ensuing from the Salvia patens topic should be moved to the "WATER" heading as I am sure many members have thier own ideas on this thorny subject and it should produce a lively and informative discussion.
I try to only plant subjects that can cope with the conditions I can offer them but realise that many people live with much severer conditions even though falling under the general heading of "Mediterranean". I am able to collect sufficient rainwater to help out certain things in times of stress but of course if your rainfall is very low this is hardly an option. My main aim, since coming to live in Italy, is to help people I come into contact with to choose the right things so that they can have an attractive and sustainable garden. Many local people admire the English style of gardening and do not realise that it not really suited to their climate. Incomers, especially those without a large knowledge of plants, find it difficult to adapt and want to plant the things they have grown up with and love. With the gloomy prospect of there being less and less precipitation in the years to come education is surely the answer?
-
This discussion was prompted by John's notes in the perennials section on Salvia patens - which needs too much summer water to be ideal for mediterranean climates.
-
Alisdair and all, perhaps this discussion could lead to accumulating advice from members through discussion to produce a list of plants that by agreement are excellent drought resistant plants for the mediterranean climate and are also ornamental. Or a total list of plants grown with a points system for all the features that are important. E.g. drought tolerance, ornamental value, flowering season, disease resistance, degree of maintenance (e.g. pruning to keep a good shape or flowering), availability. This could be discussed thoroughly before it is instigated and could be expanded if other aspects come up of importance.
A plant such as Salvia patens may get a big fat 0 but it would be useful if people could just check on a comprehensive list before making decisions.
I am aware that such information already exists in books including the one by Olivier Filippi but here is an opportunity for gardeners all over the mediterranean gardening world to produce a definitive list which could be regularly updated and improved. The updated version could also be available on the web site.
As with the discussion groups set up for the improvement of the society I feel if this were undertaken by the forum in the same way the best results would be achieved.
Every ones thoughts about this?
-
Sounds like a great idea to me and you all more than qualified to do it - unfortunately I am not. Can I add wind resistance/thrives in an exposed position to John's list. I also agree with his earlier comment about a small oasis of green in a courtyard, or in my case in pots around the door, especially if grey water is used. I feel I've earned it when the rest of my garden (apart from the veggies) gets little or no Summer watering.
-
I don't live in a truly Mediterranean climate, but I do suffer water shortage in the Spring, Summer and Autumn as my only supply is a well, which is for all the domestic uses as well as the garden. The water table gets very low here due to agricultural usage In the summer I tend to only water new plantings and occasionally my tomatoes, so everything else has to be dry tolerant. Luckily, we had some rain this summer, so I collected it in buckets off the roofs. No major losses , but quite a few plants suffered. I'm learning to re-plant these into a half shade bed, dappled shade from 1pm onwards. I'm in the process of studying what to plant, with the help of MGS members. :-*
-
The MGS has made a start on putting together comparative information on how much drought different plants can stand, based to start with on the excellent records kept by Sally Razelou at the MGS garden in Attica.
When we started this forum we all hoped that one of its most valuable functions would be to yield a far wider range of information on how different plants perform under mediterranean-climate conditions of varying degrees of summer heat and drought, and I'm sure that we are indeed on the first small steps towards that.
-
Click here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=75.msg291#msg291) to find the link which Jorun kindly arranged to two important articles in The Mediterranean Garden in which Patrick Mills set out a preliminary classification of plants for drought-resistance.
-
In our Languedoc garden plants were rarely watered. Plants either survived or failed.
Water should be expensive and metered; it is a rare commodity.
By all means start (another) classification but which mediterranean climate do you use? MGS member Alec Cobb is already putting to-gether a list of plants for difficult situations with inputs from members. I`m sure that Olivier would say that his classifications are based on his results - he lives next to the sea and "enjoys" a microclimate rich is salt, petrol fumes from motor boats and therefore relatively high humidity - and any classification is in any case dynamic.
-
From a purely personal view, my own feelings on this subject are mixed.
For most people, information and education on drought resistant plants and water saving measures are invaluable. However, I have to admit to a feeling of frustration when I pick up yet another book on mediterranean gardening to find that it is only written on those lines.
My own garden is tiny. Small enough for me to hand water it all, which I do once a fortnight in summer. (The pots get watered once a week.)
I also have eclectic tastes. I like to include plants from the sub-tropical, to those fully hardy plants that can take the heat of the summer here.
I am fortunate indeed, because I am surrounded by olive groves and vineyards, mountains and the sea-shore. I can walk or drive in my neighbourhood and see a lot of the truly mediterranean plants in the most beautiful setting. But for my own garden, I want something different. Perhaps it is deeply psychological, but I want my garden to go on and on. I do not want it to aestivate for months every year. Long flowering periods and looking good all year round, are extremely important to me for my tiny garden.
If it was a large garden, I am sure my outlook would be very different. But it is not, and I would like to hear about all plants that it may be possible to grow here.
I am surely not alone. There must be many people who have small gardens, or just a few pots. They would like to know about all the choices open to them surely?
I have bared my soul enough now :D :D :D
Having said all that, I would like to recommend a book for any rose lovers out there.
Tea Roses. Old Roses for Warm Gardens
Lynne Chapman
Nolene Drage
Di Durston
Jenny Jones
Hilary Merrifield
Billy West
For those of you who don't know this book, it was written by these Australian ladies and extols the virtues of these beautiful roses. They thrive in warm climates and do not need any watering after the first year. I have a few in my garden, and with my fortnightly summer watering regime, most of them flower year round.
Daisy :)
-
Daisy, Well said!
I think all of us would agree that there should be room on the forum for talking about any plant that can be suited to a mediterranean climate, whether or not it needs supplementary water. Though many of us are keen to promote plants which need no additional water - and that may well be the most important type of plant for mediterranean-climate gardens as water becomes increasingly scarce - we certainly don't want to be Water Police!
My own Greek garden, which is not that big, has one part near the house with automated summer irrigation (we're absent for most of the year, including all the summer months) and another larger part where new plants are watered monthly only in their first year and then have to look after themselves.
So I'm personally interested both in plants that need summer watering and in plants that can do without - and that may well be fairly typical of other forum users?
-
Yes, I'm interested in which plants can do without watering in summer. The problem for me is that here the rain becomes torrential in November! All my flower beds have to be raised and the soil mixed with sand for good drainage. Then the drought resistant plants don't get enough water in the summer. I'm living in two worlds! I'm just north of the Vendee, which has as much sun as Provence, though a more maritime climate, so changeable. It's all very interesting, finding out what likes what.
Usually, it's a good idea to look at the gardens of the local people, but here they are very uninteresting. [to me]
-
There's some interesting and relevant info here - http://www.themediterraneangardener.co.uk/drought-tolerant-plants (http://www.themediterraneangardener.co.uk/drought-tolerant-plants). That is based on first-hand experience in the south of France.