The MGS Forum

Plants for mediterranean gardens => Trees and Shrubs => Topic started by: MikeHardman on September 29, 2011, 04:53:52 PM

Title: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on September 29, 2011, 04:53:52 PM
We don't get a lot of autumn colour in Cyprus, though the oranges on the trees in winter are an interesting interpretation of the idea. Just a few trees and shrubs make a contribution, eg. planes and tamarisk. ...And parts of Pistacia terebinthus trees, as here on the Akamas.
Title: Re: A smidge of autumn colour - turpentine tree
Post by: David Bracey on September 30, 2011, 09:00:10 PM
Mike take a look at Nandina domestica, another top 10 for the mediterranean garden.  Super autumn colour with berries which last through the winter, white flowers and interesting "bamboo" like leaves. Punica has strong yellow leaves in the fall. Hedera helix the last plant to flower before the onset of winter.  But you are right, there`s not much. 

Some of the grasses give interest, for example Festuca idahoensis, is blue throughout the winter although I have never had much luck with this grass.  I would leave the flower heads of Stipa, Pennisetum spp------fantastic family and many more grasses.
Title: Re: A smidge of autumn colour - turpentine tree
Post by: MikeHardman on September 30, 2011, 10:01:48 PM
Thanks David. Some good points.
I have added Nandina to my wants list. I have admired it in UK gardens, but had not considered it for the Med.
Punica - agreed (that's on my list already).
Title: Re: A smidge of autumn colour - turpentine tree
Post by: John on October 02, 2011, 11:54:02 AM
I feel that there is more "autumn" colour at the end of spring especially from herbaceous plants and geophytes as they go dormant. Here, Picnomon acarna has the typical straw colour of the Mediterranean though in this case caused by death! Second picture. the summer straw dormancy of Carlina graeca is broken when it flowers. Even some of the evergreens can put on a display, the third picture is of Acer sempervirens which was at the stage where it would lose these leaves and come into new growth. This is just a quick selection from our book.
Title: Re: A smidge of autumn colour - turpentine tree
Post by: Alisdair on October 02, 2011, 06:01:19 PM
The acer is caught beautifully - so far my attempt to grow this from seed (from Crete) have failed utterly.
Title: Re: A smidge of autumn colour - turpentine tree
Post by: JTh on October 02, 2011, 07:03:55 PM
I always thought it is strange that there is so little of the typical autumn colours we see in the northern countries but not here in Greece. I once learnt that the anthocyanins, carotene and other pigments will appear when the chlorophyll production stops. I have read that this could because of lack of light in the autum, but it seems to  be more likely to be caused by lower temperatures. I have seen nice colours once here, though, higher up in the Holomonda mountain where it is much cooler at night.
Title: Re: A smidge of autumn colour - turpentine tree
Post by: John on October 02, 2011, 09:40:19 PM
I have germinated the Acer a few times but always from fresh seed not kept dry.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on October 03, 2011, 07:26:01 AM
Time to re-title this interesting thread just "Autumn colour", I think!  :)
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John on October 03, 2011, 07:41:30 AM
Or spring colour!
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on October 03, 2011, 07:43:14 AM
 :-\
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on October 03, 2011, 01:04:03 PM
I was intringued to find out why mediterranean plants show less autumn colour than say plants of North America and spent sometime looking for information on the web.  Unfortunately I could find little information.  One of the best articles was written by Professor J O Dowson, University of Illinois in his article "Why leaves tun colour in the autumn" http://web.extension.illinois.edu/forestry/fall_colors.html. 

The article is devoted to explaining why there is autumn colour, rather than why there is not autumn colour.  Interestingly many of the anthocyanins, flavenoids, tannins  and carotenoids are antioxydents and in fact are protecting the tree from insect and herbivore damage.  They are produced only in living cells which debunks the theory that fall colours are the result of cold weather. The changes in colour are due to starches and sugars being metabolised which are then transported back into the wood, bark and roots for winter storage.  Why this does not happen in med plants is not explained, I guess its just natural selection!
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: JTh on October 03, 2011, 01:43:21 PM
I have a few more references:

The  chemistry of autumn colors (http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/fallcolr/fallcolr.html)

How Fall Colors Work - Chemistry of Autumn Leaf Color (http://chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa082602a.htm)

Why Leaves Turn Red in Autumn. The Role of Anthocyanins in Senescing Leaves of Red-Osier Dogwood in Plant Physiol. 2001 October; 127(2): 566–574 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC125091/
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on October 03, 2011, 08:26:11 PM
I have looked at the references unfortunately nothing about why mediterranean flora show less autumn colours cf Northern deciduous trees for example.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: JTh on October 03, 2011, 09:00:14 PM
If the process has to do with energy conservation, maybe the need is bigger in a colder climate than in a mediterranean one? The leaves of plane treas down here on the coast don't change their colour in the autumn, but the leaves from same trees in the Holomondas, where it is much colder, do.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: ezeiza on October 04, 2011, 04:41:14 AM
Lagerstroemia indica
Elymus/Leymus
Festuca ovina 'Glauca'
Some Miscanthus have fantastic late autumn/winter color
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on October 04, 2011, 04:18:07 PM
Good point JTh .  Are there other species which grow at say sea level and some which grow at altitude ie Holomondas which we could compare.  What about in Israel Oron and Mike in Crete? I will ask Professsor Olate in Chile !
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on October 04, 2011, 11:03:31 PM
I'm at 100m (in Cyprus), but up in the Troodos there are some other opportunities for colour. I wonder about the cherries around Prodromos (1,400m) - thinking, despite it not being a fruit cherry, of Prunus sargentii's rich autumn colours. Also up there: Quercus alnifolia, which colours yellow in autumn. Maybe trunks of Arbutus. And the more ornamental Vitis, eg. Vitis coignetiae.

Update: These days, Prunus sargentii should be referred to as Cerasus sachalinensis [thanks Alisdair].
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John J on October 05, 2011, 04:24:32 PM
I know the Melia azedarach has recently featured in another thread here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=400.0) but I took this photo this evening as the setting sun shone on the berries. A slightly different take on the autumn colours maybe but when the leaves won't provide it you have to get it where you can.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: JTh on October 05, 2011, 05:23:39 PM
I have actually only seen proper autumn colours once in Greece, in mid-October, it was near the road to Arnea (probably around 500-600 m altitude) in the Holomondas, and it seems as if only the maples (Acer platanoides, I believe) showed these colours.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on October 05, 2011, 09:00:13 PM
Aah - Maples (and Dipteronia) - one of my favourite groups of trees.
While at Liverpool Uni. I collected a few hundred seeds from under a paperbark maple in Calderstones Park, aware of the low fertility (at least in the UK). I sowed 'em all and had about five germinate. The years took their toll, and I was down to one when I moved to Cyprus in 2009, reluctantly giving that one away (in a big pot) to a recently-discovered bonsai enthusiast. For a few years, I had had a miniature display of the deep red autumn foliage I had loved when seen in mature paperbarks.
Amur maple is another one I grew for its rich autumn colours; and I managed to root it from cuttings.
For a long-ago birthday, my ex gave me an Acer palmatum dissectum, which I dutifully tended, and which looked wonderful when its red leaves were wet with dew and backlit by the low morning sun.
Here in Cyprus, however, the native maples are in the autumn-yellow part of the spectrum.

But even with mainly yellows, you can make more of them by working with contrasts and with complements.
That's hinted at in this photo, which I took by Evretou reservoir in western Cyprus on 6jan2011. The yellow is provided by tamarisk, contrasted with green in the foreground, and complemented with the silvery twiggery beyond.

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/167713_191396677543129_100000183959118_839748_2837124_n.jpg)
(from my Facebook pages (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000183959118))
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on October 11, 2011, 08:38:46 PM
Eduarto Olate in Chile replied: " Yes we have some species with nice fall foliage related all of them in the genus Nothofagus (N. obliqua, N. alpina, N. dombeyii and N. alessandrii and N. macrocarpa). Only N. macrocarpa is in the Mediterranean area of Chile. The other species are from our Cold Temperate climate in southern Chile (Lat. 35 to 50º South)."
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on October 11, 2011, 08:50:05 PM
David/Eduarto - Nothofagus macrocarpa: wow - I see what you mean!
http://floradechile.cl/dicotyle/species/fnomacro.htm

I think I noticed a Nothofagus in the  Eleouthkia botanical park near Mandria, Cyprus. It surprised me at the time - just seeing this genus here.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on October 15, 2011, 09:35:47 PM
Some Melia azederach are trying to put on a show now; these were in Steni today
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: ezeiza on October 16, 2011, 01:42:17 AM
What a difference from one watering regime to another as here in the pampas of Argentina it is one of the best dense shade trees. The very dark leafless trees with masses of beige berries all over winter are very attractive as well. It has a an acid yellow autumn color that adds to it.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fleur Pavlidis on October 16, 2011, 03:14:06 PM
Koelreuteria paniculata: seed pods terracotta and leaves turning orange.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: ezeiza on October 16, 2011, 04:16:46 PM
Kolreuteria is stunning with their terracotta-salmon capsules
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John on October 16, 2011, 07:28:32 PM
Unlike Melia this tree is good in London though not very common and it makes quite a large tree.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on October 20, 2011, 08:37:46 PM
Pistacia terebinthus and P lentiscus, Cotinus coggygria and the climber Parthenogensis all have strong autumn colours and are worth growing.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on October 20, 2011, 10:06:42 PM
David - I think you still have aphids on your brain!
Methinks you mean Parthenocissus.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Hilary on October 21, 2011, 06:09:33 AM
Snapped a couple of days ago in Corinth
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on October 21, 2011, 08:34:07 PM
Just testing you, Mike
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on October 23, 2011, 09:20:11 PM
Hilary - that Parthenocissus is very nice.

Here are some peaches, taken today. The trees colour best where they get the most sun. They grow at about 400m in a bit of a frost hollow (along with pears and other fruit normally grown higher up).

And some Pistacia terebinthus berries, at the stage where there is a nice mix of red and blue.
And a bright yellow lichen encrusting a branch like old peeling paint.

And, more artistically, a single orange carob leaflet nestling amongst the twiggery of a thyme (I think). This goes back to an earlier posting where I mentioned thinking of colours not just on their own but in contrast. BTW, nature put the leaf there; I just took the photo.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on October 27, 2011, 07:38:40 AM
To see Hilary's photos of carob flowers giving a touch of autumn colour, click here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=186.msg2821#msg2821) - though I associate carob flowers more with the subject of autumn scents!
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on October 30, 2011, 11:21:17 AM
And what about pumpkins? (Pictures admittedly from the UK not the Med, but click here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=496.msg2895#msg2895) to see how colourful they can be).
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John on November 02, 2011, 09:12:12 PM
Not in the Med! Took this pear tree at work today covered in about 1000 fruits and in autumn colour. They are cooking pears. The tree must be well over 100 years old and there's only about one third of it in the picture.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: David Bracey on November 02, 2011, 09:37:56 PM
I am looking at another tree with absolutely stunning autumn/winter colour.  The Kaki or Japanese persimmon, Diospyros kaki.  Leaves turn a deep brown in the autumn which then fall leaving a tree laden with deep orange persimmon fruits. I think these would make excellent shade or specimen trees.  Not sure about the fruits which do turn `rorribly slushy when ripe.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John on November 02, 2011, 11:26:08 PM
What about the Mediterranean shrub or small tree Cotinus coggygria which has stunning autumn colour, particularly named clones. Or maybe one of the other species in this genus. C. obovatus may do well in the Med but I can't say for sure. It does however make a very nice tree and has stunning colour.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fleur Pavlidis on November 04, 2011, 07:43:43 AM
Papigo, nothern Pindus, Greece. Last weekend. The last photo is of the most beautiful tree of all. I thought it was a carpinus but now that I look at the book I don't think so. The leaves are largish, roundish and serrated.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Hilary on November 04, 2011, 08:18:30 AM
Wonderful.
I wondered if no one had a photo of the hills in Eipirus in autumn
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on November 04, 2011, 01:51:17 PM
Fleur - I agree with Hilary - wonderful!
I would guess Ostrya carpinifolia. I have seen it in the Vikos Gorge in the Pindus.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on November 08, 2011, 09:51:03 AM
Of course, the fruit on palms provide a blazing splash of orange
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alevin on November 09, 2011, 10:30:31 PM
I had not seen this thread. I have been researching into autumn coloring plants for our climate for quite a long time now. This garden has many peculiar microclimates, often a few metres apart, with moist areas (mainly in the low garden, but not only there) and dryish, tipically mediterranan ones (mainly on the hill).
Therefore we grow Gingko biloba and Japanese maples not far from Spathodea, Carobs and Olives.
Having said so, I must add that in years such as this one there is practically no Autumn whatsoever - we are still in a  warm spell and most of the garden is in full bloom and in great glory. Forget about autumn colors that in favourable years appeared by the end of November! To have the dramatic color changes, plants need cold nights followed by bright days; we have the latter, but no sign of the former. There were somegood  rains though, so real mediterranean plants are actively growing, some are blooming, and they certainly  don't contemplate shedding their leaves in this season. Therefore to have a display of colors one must turn to non native plants.

My personal list for foliage colors is the following:
Pistachia chinensis
Rhus typhina
Lagerstroemia indica
Cotinus coggygria
Parthenocissus ssp
Persimmon (Dyospiros kaki)
Koelreuteria bipinnata
Triadica sebifera (syn. Sapium sebiferum)
Nandina domestica
Punica granatum
Plus the above mentioned Maples (Acer) of the palmatum group (grown in half or full shade) and the Gingko. When they feel like performing they are gorgeous: a couple of years ago they changed into an incredible flash of bright oranges, yellows and reds!
 
A good color should  also  be provided by Cedrela sinensis (now called Toona sinensis), I read somewhere, but I only  planted one last year,  and this year I don't hope to see much in terms of color change.  We will see in the future.




Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John on November 10, 2011, 01:20:47 AM
Gingko's are just at there best in London right now, butter yellow and today just before I left work I realised that the Morus niger is looking stunning in it's overall pale yellow autumn colour. I left it too late in the day to photograph and it may have dropped by the time I go back. It is still so mild here in London. Not really dropping below 10ºC so far.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on November 10, 2011, 08:21:44 AM
That's a fascinating list, Alessandra; thanks!
We find Nandina domestica colours better in our Greek garden - with very mild winters - than it does for us in the UK. Maybe its colouring mechanism is less dependent on the cooling.
Certainly in the south of Greece at our sea level there is never much conventional autumn colour, with some deciduous trees like jacarandas often keeping their leaves into late February. But in the mountains behind, as soon as one is above about 600 metres (quarter of an hour's drive - or a couple of hours' walking!) there can be plenty of autumn colour.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John on November 12, 2011, 11:11:34 PM
Does Morus alba colour up well? Here taken yesterday is Morus niger on a dull miserable London day but a bright yellow.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: MikeHardman on December 08, 2011, 04:55:29 PM
John - I have the impression M. alba does more of a cream thing, but that's largely based on a bonsai I used to grow in the UK. I have certainly seen some solid yellow-coloured M. trees round about Cyprus, but I have not stopped to identify the species.

Pistacia's are continuing to colour-up here. Photo 1.
And Platanus are adding to the palette down in the valley, contrasting with the rich green of the citrus groves. Photo 2.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on December 08, 2011, 05:45:08 PM
Round us in Greece the white mulberry just looks drab and sere as leaf fall approaches - some of the people who grow it for shade give it its severe annual pruning just before autumn, but that's perhaps more for convenience than aesthetics.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: JTh on October 24, 2013, 10:03:10 PM
It’s a long time since anybody commented on autumn colours,  we visited the Holomonda mountains yesterday; I have a couple of photos which show that the colours are changing here as well. Maybe not as spectacular as in more northern climates, but quite nice.

These are taken at around 1000 m above sea level, in the first one, mount Athos can be seen in the haze in the background.

Title: Pumpkins
Post by: Alisdair on October 25, 2013, 09:31:17 AM
Nice, Jorun! Down in the Peloponnese at that sort of height those colours don't usually come in until around the turn of the year.
Here's an alternative sort of autumn colour - part of our pumpkin and winter squash crop this year. We put them out like this for people to see as they pass down our lane, and on the last weekend in October with our neighbour (who also grows them) we have a roadside charity stall to sell some of them.
The second little group chatting together are Blue Hubbard, Green Hubbard and Red Hubbard:
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alice on October 25, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
For a moment, Alisdair, I thought your impressive stack of pumpkins was grown in the Peloponnese - until I saw the telltale sign of the wet paving...
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Alisdair on October 25, 2013, 06:03:39 PM
Well spotted, Alice: at least it brings a welcome spot of mediterranean colour into our soggy autumn Sussex  ;)
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: JTh on October 25, 2013, 06:19:58 PM
A nice display, Alisdair, I was surprised at first as well, understanding that this was in the Peloponnese.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Umbrian on October 27, 2013, 08:00:33 AM
Three subjects that give autumn colour and that I find very useful and rewarding in the garden are Hydrangea quercilfolia, Ceratostigma plumbaginoides and Viti vinifera "Purpurea". The Hydrangea appreciates  some summer shade to prevent the beautifully shaped leaves becoming prematurely withered and merely going brown. The Ceratostigma is undemanding and its bright blue flowers provide a splash of fresh colour later in the summer when other subjects are getting tired following up with some subtle autumn colour. The Vitis is rewarding from spring to autumn with the added bonus of plentiful, if small ,grapes. In early spring the beautifully shaped young leaves are downy in texture and a smokey grey/green in colour. These mature to a mid green and then colour magnificently in late summer/early autumn ranging from fiery red, through deep maroon and purple. Unfortunately I was too late to photograph mine this year but am posting 'photos of the other two.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Umbrian on October 27, 2013, 08:03:22 AM
Seems as if my 'photos did not attach themselves  :( - will have another try :)
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Hilary on October 30, 2013, 08:01:59 AM
Near Iliokastro, Argolida, Greece
A vineyard
A freshly ploughed field
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: hughjackman on February 08, 2014, 07:09:37 PM
Could the lack of colour be due to the very short winter experienced around the Med? Autumn has hardly finished before signs of spring are eagerly appearing.

andy
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John J on October 30, 2015, 06:56:47 AM
On the way back from the MGS AGM in Ischia we stopped off to visit a friend outside Rome and she took us to the garden of an Italian Architetto, Marco Mariani. This tree stood out from the rest with its brilliant autumn colours. For more about Marco see www.marcomarianiarchitetto.it.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Hilary on November 03, 2016, 08:30:03 AM
last weekend in Sparta I had the chance to see these two trees with their autumn colour

Broussonetia papyrifera and Koelreuteria paniculata
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fermi on May 02, 2020, 03:29:10 AM
This has been a good year for autumn colour. Here's some of the Chinese Pistachio in the garden
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fermi on May 03, 2020, 04:23:25 PM
Washington Thorn, Crataegus phaenopyrum, in autumn colour - unfortunately no berries as the birds finish them off before they even turn red!  >:(
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Charithea on May 04, 2020, 12:25:05 PM
They look lovely Fermi. Autumnal colour is not something we see much of these days. We need to go up the mountains to see some colour change but nothing spectacular.  Your photos brought to mind the English country side. Spring time by the river side, railway lines full of flowers, blackberry picking to make apple and blackberry pies in the summer.  The  Cyprus government is relaxing the staying home rule so we hope to go and look for wild flowers.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fermi on May 09, 2020, 12:28:13 PM
Thanks, Charithea.
The change of the seasons is one of the things I would miss if we moved to somewhere like Queensland (where we both have family).
Here are some of the Ash trees in full autumn regalia and fallen leaves under the Claret Ash
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Charithea on May 09, 2020, 02:26:46 PM
Fermi I can only say'Glorious colours'.  We experienced a few Autumn colour changes while living in Hereford a long time ago but I don't  remember them being so vivid.  Thank you and keep the photos coming.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fermi on May 11, 2020, 11:34:59 AM
Thanks again, Charithea.
Here's the Medlar in autumn colour and fruit! Now if we can just find the motivation to collect, blet and process the fruit to made Medlar paste!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John J on May 11, 2020, 12:20:16 PM
Our medlar is just coming into flower.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Charithea on May 11, 2020, 02:59:32 PM
Fermi I replied to this post earlier but after spell checking it I lost it. So I decided to try again.As you see from the photo above we have a medlar tree too.  I learnt to eat them when I was a child because my mother ate them when they were bletted. As for making things out of them I have not heard anybody using them as the basic ingredient but I have some resourceful  friends in Sardegna that make liqueur from most things. I got recipes from them  so perhaps I should ask their opinion.
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: Fermi on May 14, 2020, 03:11:58 PM
Hi Charithea,
I'd love to know what they say! I have friends that make a fruit paste/cheese from Medlar fruit but a liqueur might be more interesting ;D

This was at one stage Cydonia sinensis but Plants of the World Online say it's back to Pseudocydonia sinensis. Another fruit that we don't usually get to eat due to the parrots  but apparently can be stewed like other quinces or made into jelly or paste
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Autumn colour
Post by: John J on May 21, 2020, 06:04:27 AM
I know it is not autumn here in the Med and we don't get much colour at that time of year anyway, but we do get a display from our Euphorbia dendroides as it shuts down for the summer.