The MGS Forum
Plants for mediterranean gardens => Bulbs (including other geophytes with corms, tubers, rhizomes etc) => Topic started by: Alisdair on September 29, 2011, 01:56:05 PM
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The only truly mediterranean lily species is the Madonna lily, Lilium candidum – mediterranean in the sense that it is adapted to keep more or less in growth through the winter, with a basal rosette of leaves that emerge in the autumn, then sending up its flowering stem as things warm up in the spring, and dying back to dormancy in the heat of summer. But there are other species which grow around the Mediterranean. They manage to put up with the climate though their dormant period is the winter – so they tend in the wild to be confined to cooler places, in the mountains, like the red turkscap lily of the Alps, Lilium pomponium.
Some of these are worth trying at lower altitudes, so long as they can be kept in growth as long as possible during the spring and early summer, which means giving them cool shade and moisture.
Lilium pyrenaicum, from the eastern Pyrenees and one or two other parts of France and Spain, is one of the earliest lilies to come into flower, and therefore has a good chance of finishing its growth cycle before the hottest times:
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Lilium bosniacum grows in the Balkans, and has flowers of a rather more orange shade than the purer yellow of L. pyrenaicum, or of the otherwise very similar if taller L. jankae. Until recently these were all thought to be variants of one widespread mountain species, and may well one day be reclassified as that, but are all currently recognised as separate species. Here is L. bosniacum:
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My own favourite among the Mediterranean lilies is the striking scarlet Lilium chalcedonicum, which grows in many parts of Greece, and is also found in Albania. As in the other pictures, this plant was grown from seed – always the best way of avoiding virus diseases, which are the lily-grower’s plague:
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Recently I have been intrigued by the behaviour of an utterly non-mediterranean lily, Lilium bakerianum var. rubrum. It comes from quite high but rarely very frosty forested parts of Yunnan and Guizhou in China, and does not come into growth until the monsoon rains sweep past. In cultivation, it echoes this behaviour, not growing until watered, then shooting up unusually quickly to flower. Also, at the moment (late September) I have a couple of pots of seedlings of it which seem at a very similar stage of active growth as seedlings of L. candidum, whereas almost all other lily seedlings are by now long dormant. I’m sure it needs a rather humid atmosphere while growing, but even so I’m really tempted to try this in Greece, as it is such an exotic-looking plant:
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Wonderfull all of them, Alisdair, just today I saw some lily bulbs for sale and I wondered how they would behave here without a lot of watering. Of course, those offered where none of the ones you mention, from where did you get your seeds? There are not many lilies on the MGS seed list, actually only one.
L. martagon is said to be widespread in the Balkans, they grow like mad in my garden in Norway, how would they behave here in Greece? I gathered a few seeds just before I came here and spread them around in my garden in Halkidiki, do they have a chance at all?
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A chance, Jorun, but perhaps not a very high one, as L. martagon in the Balkans is certainly a plant of the coolest areas, and elsewhere in Europe is commonest in rather cool areas - it naturalises well here in the UK, for instance. Perhaps even worth trying in Norway!
You can get martagons from white through pink or red to deep purple. Here's one selected from L. martagon var. cattaniae that's near-black, and now comes pretty true from seed. Fairly disease-resistant, too (this particular plant is now 23 years old).
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The seeds I brought with me were from Norway, they grow very easily there and spreads more than I need.
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I was at Spetchley Park this summer with the RHS at an herbaceous day! In the grounds there are quantities of naturalised L. martagon (1st picture) and L. monadelphum (2nd picture).
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The smell of all those massed monadelphums must have been pretty overpowering! I find even one rather unpleasant.
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Yes but it doesn't seem to bother me. For years I have endured Arum pictum flowering in the greenhouse which goes on for 2 or 3 weeks and now it doesn't bother me. One scent that can bother me is that of some of the hybrid oriental lilies as it can be overpoweringly strong in a confined space!
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For people (like me) that the monadelphum/szovitsianum does bother, another species in that same group well worth trying is Lilium kesselringianum, very similar, but with a more "regular lily" scent, and not too strong:
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And again in that same group, Lilium ledebourii (from the Elburz mountains between Iran and Russia) has a - to me - delightful scent, the usual lily fragrance with a hint of lemon to sharpen it. Also, its creamy colour contrasting with the reddish pollen I think is much nicer than the others in this group:
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I have a pot of Lilium regale that are in flower now and have grown exceptionally tall this year. They have been in the pot for 4/5 years and I think it is time to re-pot them. In the spring, when they started into growth, I noticed lots of smaller plants presumably coming from offset bulbils and so re-potting would seve a double purpose, give the older bulbs more space and hopefully increase my collection. When is the best time to do this?
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Best time for repotting or replanting lilies is when all growth has died down. The classic recommendation is October. Always be careful, though, as many lilies continue to have some root activity into the autumn even though the stems have died back, so try not to damage any active or reasonably plump roots.
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I envy you your Lilium regale Umbrian.
I had a few which flowered last year, so I thought I would try a few more.
However, the original ones, only put up a few leaves and a visitor managed to break the newly planted ones, whilst reaching for apricots. :'( :'( :'(
Daisy :)
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Lilium martagon seems to grow naturally in many parts of mainland/northern Greece; have any of you any experience with this in your garden? I have lots of them in my garden in Oslo, I got one plant may years ago from a friend and now it grows more or less everywhere, producing lots of seedlings which I wonder if I may have any success with in Halkidiki, Greece. Or maybe it would be better to start them from seeds?
The flowers stayed pink/mauve for many years, but lately they seem to have mutated, so many of them are pure white, they are really beautiful. It would be ideal to have lilies which produce flowers in July-August, like these, although I suppose they would like to get some water. They grow very tall here, almost competing with the Eremurus robustus seen in the background of the first photo.
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Of all lily species Lilium martagon is among the very best for your cold Norwegian garden, Jorun - but much less suitable for a typical mild-winter dry-summer mediterranean garden. Although in the wild its very wide distribution extends as far as Spain, France, Italy and Greece, there it is found only in the higher mountains, where conditions better suit its spring/summer natural growing cycle. If you are determined to try it in Greece, keep it in deep shade and keep it moist well into summer. And if you try it from seed, reckon on a wait of five to seven years before it flowers - I find it one of the slowest of all lilies from seed.
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I've grown the white Martagon here in the Adelaide Hills in a partly shady spot with occasional summer irrigation. So far it seems OK after 4 yrs tho' it hasn't grown really tall yet. I'm tempted to try some of the interspecific hybrids on offer here such as 'Marharan'. I'm also growing several of the West Coast US martagon type species - pardalinum, pitkinense etc. tn
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Trevor, I think that goes to show what an exceptional plantsman you are! (And also how rather special your Adelaide Hills climate is....) All those west coast lilies need water going into summer - Lilium pitkinense in the wild is actually confined to one small marsh! But having said that, most of them do tolerate winter rains even though that's their natural dormant period (Lilium humboldtii is a marked exception, needing it dry then). And if you are prepared to give some summer water L. pardalinum can make a fine show.
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I'm pretty sure L. martagon uses less than five to six years in my garden in Norway to flower. I have plenty of little seedlings I'll try to transplant into my garden in Greece in the autum, I have a few shady areas. It won't be a disaster if I don't succeed, but it is worth a try.
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If martagons take less than five to six years in your garden, Jorun, I think that shows how much the (highly un-Mediterranean) climate of Norway suits them! Five to six years is pretty typical in Western Europe, and what I find myself. In his "Lilies" book, Patrick Synge says "usually taking 5-7 years before flowering"; Woodcock & Coutts say "seedlings take so long to flower, sometimes seven or eight years, that those who desire to increase it should do so by scales or offsets from the bulbs". A long time to wait (especially compared to those lilies such as L. formosanum and L. longiflorum which can sometimes be persuaded to flower within their first year) - but well worth the wait.
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My Lilium Acapulco has simply not turned up this year. :(
http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=670.0
For the last two years they have grown and flowered splendidly.
I have no idea why there is absolutely no sign of them this year.
My Lilium Stargazer, which are under the apricot tree with them, have grown and flowered without any problem.
Can anyone suggest a reliable, pink, scented lily I can replace them with?
Thanks Daisy :)
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You could try 'Le Rêve', a popular fragrant oriental hybrid (sometime sold as La Rêve, and originally registered under the name Joy). The best widely available fragrant pink trumpet is 'Pink Perfection', but it is a bit variable - as I think all the named hybrid trumpets are.
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Thank-you Alisdair, Le Reve looks perfect. It is certainly worth trying.
I have read that the longiflorum asiatic hybrids also do well in warm climates. Richard Hyde has some lovely ones on his website. I would love to try lots of different ones, if it wasn't for the carriage costs. >:(
Daisy :)
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Do try at least some of Richard's lilies, Daisy; he does grow them so well. Also his lilies are all firmly aimed at gardeners, so tend to be scented and "good doers".
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Thank-you Alisdair, Le Reve looks perfect. It is certainly worth trying.
I have read that the longiflorum asiatic hybrids also do well in warm climates. Richard Hyde has some lovely ones on his website. I would love to try lots of different ones, if it wasn't for the carriage costs. >:(
Daisy :)
Daisy,
we've found the LA hybrids quite happy here in our "almost" Mediterranean climate,
cheers
fermi
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They are lovely Fermi.
I have left it a bit too late for this year, but I shall certainly try some next year.
Daisy :)
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Daisy,
They seem to be quite worthwhile.
We do alright with some of the Orient-Pets (Oriental x Trumpets) as well, as long as the summer heat isn't too strong early in the season and we can supply enough water to them! Hopefully I'll be able to post some pics later in the summer.
Here's another LA hybrid - 'Royal Trinity' a pale orange/pale apricot which does well here,
cheers
fermi
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I think this is the Asiatic lilium 'Tresor',
cheers
fermi
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Another Asiatic lilium, 'Red Velvet'
A species, Lilium leichtlinii x 2
Orient-pet Lilium 'Saltarello'
Lilium 'Triumphator' x 2
cheers
fermi
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Two of the Orient-pets now in bloom; the first is flowering for the first time from a bulb bought in winter and the second has been in the garden at least 3 years and seems to be improving each year,
Lilium Saltarello
Lilium Silk Road x 2
cheers
fermi
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Really nice to see those, Fermi; thanks! For those who don't know it, it's worth pointing out that Triumphator is very aptly named, in the sense that its enormous flowers really stand out - particularly because of their size - in any display that includes other lilies.
Do your L. leichtlinii set fertile seed? I ask, because the Dutch have recently been distributing this attractive yellow (rather than orange) variety in very large numbers, but because their plants have been micropropagated from a single clone they don't set seed unless pollinated by a different lily. However, there are fertile stocks around, grown from seed rather than from the Dutch supplies.
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Hi Alisdair,
It's the Lilium leichtlinii's first year so I don't know if it will set seed but I might self pollinate a flower or two to see if it does!
cheers
fermi
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A couple of "new" lilies -
firstly an Oriental-Trumpet Hybrid Lilium, Table Dance x2,
Another Oriental-Trumpet Hybrid, Orania x2
cheers
fermi
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A rather tall (for a first year from planting) Oriental-Trumpet Hybrid Lilium called 'Ovation'
cheers
fermi
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We had 5 days of 40oC last week and a couple of liliums succumbed :'(
This Lilium 'Canberra' was a bit singed but Lilium 'X-Phi' came through a bit better,
just waiting to see if any of the later flowerers come through in the next few weeks,
cheers
fermi
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This has been a good year, particularly for some newly planted liliums where we can keep them watered.
Here is a mixed planting of mixed hybrids;
Unnamed Oriental-Trumpet Hybrid
Longiflorum-Asiatic hybrids
Deep red Oriental-Asiatic hybrid
Asiatic hybrid 'Tiger Babies'
Asiatic 'Tiny Padhye'
Asiatic 'Loreto'
'Lankon': L.longiflorum x L. lankongense
cheers
fermi
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Fascinating to see those lilies growing so well, Fermi; either your management or your microclimate or both must be very special to tempting them all into performing as well as your more "conventionally mediterranean" things! Which sorts of lilies have you found most likely to be able to cope without much watering? (Some Californians have suggested to me that orienpets and some of the LAs might be able to stand drier hotter conditions, but the only lily that survives for me in Greece is Lilium candidum.)
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Hi Alisdair,
it really is only by supplying supplementary watering that we manage to have any liliums flowering here!
Even with water the lilies do not do well if we get summer heat too early or if they are in an unmulched bed.
This year we had a very dry spring and some of the lilums which weren't watered early enough are not going to flower and I need to give them a feed now for next year,
cheers
fermi
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Some more liliums in flower now:
Yellow-red Oriental-Asiatic hybrid, maybe 'Kaveri'
Asiatic Hybrid 'Pearl Jennifer'
Asiatic Hybrid 'Sweet Surrender'
Pink Oriental-Asiatic hybrid, maybe 'Cocopa'
Lilium leichtlini
Longiflorum-Asiatic hybrid 'Royal Sunset'
cheers
fermi
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Some of the Orient-Pet Lilium hybrids are in flower again:
Belladonna
Ovation
Robina
Gluhwein
cheers
ferni
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O-T Hybrid Lilium 'Mr Cas'
cheers
fermi
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Lilium 'Black Beauty' is a cross between Lilium speciosum and L. henryi and was the start of the "Oriental -Trumpet" hybridisation splurge!
cheers
fermi
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Your lilies are amazing Fermi. I haven't had much luck with them. I tried some Stargazer from a local shop some years ago. They did well for a time, but gradually dwindled away.
My favourite lily is L.regale and planted some for what was probably going to be just a one year show, a few years back. They were growing strongly under the apricot tree and I was looking forward to them.
Unfortunately, I invited an Englishman from a neighbouring village to come round for some of the apricots. I got the stepladder out ready to place carefully under the tree among the plants. When he arrived, I left him in the garden whilst I fetched him a beer. When I came back out, he had just waded in under the apricot tree and started picking. He broke every single one of my lilies, the new growth on the Japanese anemones, my Sarcococca humilis and many other plants. I was so livid I didn't know whether to shout or cry. He was banned from my garden for ever. When I see him in the local town now, I am ashamed to say that I cut him completely. Just the mention of his name brings back the sorrow of losing those lilies. I have never had the heart to try Lilium regale since.
Daisy :)
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Here in Corinth the houses are built right on the pavement leaving no room for a garden.
The older houses have huge areas at the back where the original plan was for the owners to have vegetable gardens.
Some of these hidden gardens have flowers all year round, Michaelmas Daisies, Narcissus, Bluebells and, at this time of year, these "Lilies".
I have never been able to acquire one of the bulbs.
I even went to the extent of going, with a friend, to an empty plot where the house had just been pulled down.
I knew where the bulbs were but some one had beaten me to it.
We did manage to get some Narcissus bulbs and Bluebell bulbs which flower evey year in my friend's garden
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The early liliums have been in flower for a little while; here are a range of Asiatic hybrids including some spotty ones known as "Tango Lilies".
My partner described them as "creepy"!
Asiatics:
'Black Charm'
'Tiger Babies'
'Eye-liner'
These came as labelled "Tango Mix" and I've given them the names that they seem to correspond to in the catalogue!
Lionheart;
Kentucky;
Orange Art;
As you can see in some of the pics these get watered during the summer!
cheers
fermi
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Do you grow any of the oriental/trumpet hybrids - "orienpets" or "OTs", Fermi? They were recommended to me as a possibility for mediterranean climates. (Although I'm very fond of lilies and grow a lot - mainly species - at our home in Sussex, England, the only one I've got that flowers, and without watering, in our Greek garden is Lilium candidum.)
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Hi Alisdair,
yes, have a look further up the page ;D
This year's will be in flower soon and I'll try to get some pics to post when they do.
I think they still require more water than a typical Mediterranean climate would provide and we have to keep them watered to get decent flowers.
In really hot weather the buds and foliage can get burned or even abort.
We've tried and lost the Madonna Lily a few times but are trying again with some small bulblets a friend raised from seed,
cheers
fermi
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Thanks for the reminder, Fermi (and the reminder that age is certainly taking its toll on my memory!) ::)
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Alisdair,
it happens to us all!
Here are a few more liliums in our garden this year:
orange Oriental-Asiatic Lilium
deep pink O-A Lilium, maybe 'Cocopa'
Lilium longiflorum 'Illusive' being elusive under an apple/crabapple
Asiatic 'Red Life'
'Pearl Jennifer'
Tango Lilium 'Thesire'
'Tiny Padhye'
Longiflorum-Aisatic 'Royal Sunset'
'Sweet Surrender'
yellow O-A Lilium
cheers
fermi
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A last flower on Aurelian Lilium 'Mimosa Star' which has survived the heat in the shade of of an apple tree
cheers
fermi