The MGS Forum

Gardening in mediterranean climates => General Cultivation => Topic started by: westyboy on December 26, 2012, 02:52:48 PM

Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: westyboy on December 26, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
I am so glad I found The MGS and this Forum. Because I want to understand how best to garden in the Med. I read everything I can, and have attended numerous courses at Kew and Wisley. But still everything I do in my Med garden seems to be experimental.

My garden is approximately ½ an acre, and my Finca is situated right in the middle.
Initally  I planted a number of trees  to create some shade, Fig, olive, Jacaranda, and  Palms.
Then over the years I have planted : Agapanthus,  Clivia,  Lantana, Agave,  Aloe, Canna,  Lavender, Callistemon viminalis,  Grapevine, Lemon, Yucca.
I have setup a good watering system, and have decided for the next couple of years whilst everything is getting fully established, I will bite the bullet and water as necessary.
My first questions :
Are Compost bins possible in a Med garden, (all mine continually dry out).
If you had one choice, which plant would you recommend adding to my garden.

All help gratefully received

Roy
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Alisdair on December 26, 2012, 09:36:18 PM
Roy, It's certainly possible to make compost in a mediterranean climate, and many members find it invaluable both for improving their soil and for mulching. However, except in wet weather, it's essential to keep the compost heap moist by watering - which prevents absentee gardeners like me being able to make compost. A good balance between green leafy stuff and well chopped twiggy stuff is important.
I'm sure many of the expert composters here on the forum have some great tips for you.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: David Bracey on December 26, 2012, 10:03:38 PM
The standard compost bin which you fill up with green debris and turn at regular intervals does not work.  As Alisdair suggests you need to keep the material wet.  I made my compost next to a slooping roof where water ran-off directly onto the compost.  You can add any nitrate fertilizer which will act as a booster.  I used to throw everything onto the pile, old vegetables, clippings, grass mowings if you have a no, no lawn, twiggy bits which need to be cut down tosay 15cm, all weeds etc.

Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Umbrian on December 27, 2012, 08:22:39 AM
You really make it difficult with "one choice" Westboy but something I would not like to be without is Russelia equisetiformis. This plant is a new "passion" of mine after seeing it in Siciliy several years ago. I have to protect it in the winter but I am sure for you it would probably be OK. There are postings on the Forum about it. Unusual but simply spectacular to my mind when positioned well.
Regarding composting, I agree it is not easy in Mediterranean climates especially when one is not present throughout the year. Although I am a permanent resident I do cover mine at the start of the really hot, dry weather, making sure it is wet before I do. I use old sun lounger covers (cheap disposable ones that I replace every year) These have a foam inner that gives good insulation to the pile. Over these I place a light weight tarpauline. When the autumn rains come I remove the tarpuline but leave the other cover as it allows rain through but helps to keep the pile warm and decomposing as the temperature drops. In the spring I usually have a decent amount of good compost although never enough! Of course a second pile is being made after the summer covering that receives household waste, garden trimmings and, during the winter, ashes from out wood burning stoves. I try to keep it "layered" as much as possible and turn it now and again but often good intentions are not always kept too! However it is well worth having a go as a little is better than nothing :)
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Daisy on December 27, 2012, 09:01:18 AM
Roy, I started a compost bin when I first arrived here in Crete. Although I was able to keep it damp, I could not turn it.
This is due to an incident that happened many years ago when I gardened in Surrey.
I was happily tossing and turning my compost one day with a fork.
Then HORRORS!!!! I lifted my fork out to find that I had completely impaled a frog!!!
Since that day, I just cannot do it. Every time I try, I get a vision of that poor frog.
I gave up the compost bin, partly because it was so slow and partly because I wanted the space for planting. My garden is tiny.
Since then, I throw my green waste onto some neighbouring derelict land belonging to the local council. Here I find, although it is slow, it does compost well.
Daisy :)
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: westyboy on December 27, 2012, 02:11:53 PM
I knew I had to persevere with a compost bin, but needed inspiration. Thanks for all your thoughts.

Umbrian your situation seems to be similar to mine. (We have just had a wood burner installed.) I will try to follow your advice, and hopefully have better success next year.
I will also locate it under a sloping roof, to take advantage of what little water we get. thanks David

Sorry Daisy, I do have Roses. But I don't have any in flower at the moment. I originally brought some English Roses with me. (cuttings from my garden in Hampshire.) they only flowered once throughout the year, and were not really worth the effort. I have now planted some Spanish Varieties (not sure of the names) and get a much better display.

The wierdest thing of all, I asked my wife last week did she have any thoughts of new plants for the garden. She mentioned that friends of ours, (who have gone back to England for Christmas) had a plant in their garden that she loved. So as a devoted husband, I
climbed over their wall to take a look. I did not recognize it straight away, but after a bit of research, that plant was .................
..............................Russelia equisetiformis. So that plant is a must for my garden. (That is Spooky Umbrian)

Happy New year to all

Roy
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Umbrian on December 28, 2012, 07:49:10 AM
No not spooky Roy....perhaps just great minds think alike ;D obviously your wife and I are on the same wavelength :)
I am sure you will end up with a beautiful garden with your enthusiasm and your wife's good taste!
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: MikeHardman on December 31, 2012, 10:06:24 PM
Roy - composting - I have not tried it, but I know it is a technique...
Composting in closed bin bags
Well, bin bags are not robust enough, but large compost bags would be.
I have no idea on recommended 'recipes' (relative amounts of green material/brown material (or paper)/moisture/accelerator/worms/etc.), but the idea is to avoid loss of water by keeping it in! In the Mediterranean heat, it would cook quite quickly - and I'm sure the 'recipe' makes all the difference there - you don't want to create an awful pile of smelly slime. The bag may need opening from time to time, to let air in and other gases out, I guess.
Just a thought.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: westyboy on January 01, 2013, 07:41:42 AM
Thanks Mike

Each year when I cut my Fig tree back. I place all the leaves in a black sack, and that has given me a very limited amount of compost. What you are suggesting is an extention of that, and might be worth a try in the future....Thanks

I spent a long time in the UK last year. As a result I have been very busy in the garden this week. I now have enough waste matter for two compost bins. I have decided, (based on the positive feedback from this forum) to persevere.
I have ordered a new shredder, and will do everything as normal. Plus water the compost daily. And once the summer heat starts I will cover the bin completely, and monitor it regularly.

No one else locally seems to compost, so I thought I was fighting a losing battle.
But I feel very positive about this method.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: John J on January 01, 2013, 08:26:10 AM
Probably one of the most efficient methods of composting in our climate is with a rotating compost bin. The main problem lies in obtaining one. A few years ago a Turkish-Cypriot environmental NGO called SAVE (Supporting Activities that Value the Environment) funded by USAID (United States Agency for International Development) carried out a project in northern Cyprus involving rotating compost bins. They had them constructed from old, wooden cable drums and gave them to 20 families with instruction on how to use them. At the end of the trial period 19 of them had produced viable compost, the one failure being due, apparently, to not conforming with instructions. I have never got around to following this up but anyone who has access to an old cable drum and a competent carpenter might like to give it a try!
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: MikeHardman on January 01, 2013, 08:56:10 AM
John - Good point.

As alternatives to purpose-made compost drums:
- 50 gallon metal drums (used for various chemicals)
- large plastic dustbin (a robust one as purchasable from a local farming coop)

With both of those:
- You'd need a lid; easier to come-by on the dustbin.
- I'm in two minds about drilling holes in the sides, for letting air in - because they'll also let the moisture out.
- The idea would be to roll it along the ground to turn it, rather than rotating it on an axis. (If you want to be fancy, you could build a frame comprising a couple of parallel axles (with rollers or discrete small wheels), and rest the drum on that.)
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: John J on January 01, 2013, 09:38:39 AM
I've dug out this old photo and scanned it. The quality is very poor but it might give some idea of how the drums were converted.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: JTh on January 01, 2013, 11:17:03 AM
Completely airtight bags does not sound right to me; composting is an aerobic process which needs a certain amount of oxygen for the microbial oxidation of carbon. Without air you create anaerobic digestion, which is fine for producing renewable energy of household  waste and sewage, but I don’t think the product is as useful in the garden as proper compost.

I have a compost pile in Greece, it does not produce good compost as quickly as in my garden in Norway, since I can't water it, but it does work, slowly.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: MikeHardman on January 01, 2013, 04:17:46 PM
Jorun - yes - the air's the issue.
Apart from some regime of periodically opening the bag and turning the  contents, what's needed is a particular plastic that is at the same time permeable to air but impermeable to water (which ought to be possible).

Daisy - you tease! Wonderful photos and gardening.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: JTh on January 01, 2013, 05:00:41 PM
The description of the material for the bags you wish sounds like the fabric used in the hideously expensive waterproof/breathable sportswear cloathing. Possible? Yes, but can't  be cheap, and how do you let the water go into the compost when it is raining without letting it leave again?
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: MikeHardman on January 01, 2013, 09:46:28 PM
Gore-Tex and such-like - yes -- which would be expensive, true.
Letting the rain in - well, I guess you could have some holes in the bottom of the bag, and have it sitting in a large saucer - so the rain would get in by capillary action from the bottom (along creases, etc.) without letting it evaporate later (or barely so).
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Trevor Australis on January 08, 2013, 07:11:56 AM
I meant to give my answer to the matter of making compost in a Med climate but New Year intervened :)

I don't bother. We keep all green waste from our garden but for tree branches and thick stems. I used to put it through a shredder/ mulcher but gave that away too. I detest the noise made by our many neighbours who shred, mow and blow just when I want to nap, relax, read, sit outside with friends and drinks etc so I figured the best thing to do was set the example. I just stopped using the noisy smelly machine.
Now I/we make all our green waste into a rough hand cut mulch using secateurs etc. We usually let if fall where it drops. At first it acts like mulch but within 6 months it gradually turns into compost and evetually it would disappear but for us continuing to make more. In effect it is pretty much like what happens in the natural bushland here-abouts. I have a lad who helps me in the garden. He has few natural gardening talents but he can cut stuff up - and he does which is a great help in managing green waste on site. I find I have a few ethical problems about paying to have it taken away to be dumped on someone else's land and then paying again to buy it back as garden mulch or compost.
Neat freaks may have difficulty accepting such an approach but we like it. The coarse nature of the stuff makes it the preferred home to lots of small skinks.

45 degrees here the day before y/day sio all those who saw my lush peonies during the GA tour can't say ours isn't a Med garden. We've had no rain at all since you were here in Oct. :(
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: JTh on January 08, 2013, 10:51:31 AM
Trevor, I like your views on composting. There has been a long discussion here on mulching or not, but I have noticed that bushes which had a hard time surviving in the beginning, were doing much better when they finally started to produce their own mulch, then they were able manage on their own. So why not copy nature and leave the green waste where it was produced?
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Alisdair on January 08, 2013, 04:04:25 PM
Jorun, I've noticed that with shrubs too - but can never be sure whether they are at last doing better because of their self-produced mulch, or whether at last their roots have got down deep enough to produce the extra top-growth and thus the mulch!
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Trevor Australis on January 09, 2013, 12:10:24 AM
Alisdair may remember visiting the Waite Arboretum during the GA in Adelaide. The Curator and staff there spread shredded tree branches and dried gum leaves in thick carpets under all the trees in the collection to the extent of the drip-line and beyond. The trees get no irrigation after they are established and are doing really well. I think Alisdair will agree that the arboretum looks in good condition.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: westyboy on January 10, 2013, 10:24:47 AM
Thanks for your input Trevor

I would not be able to just cut and leave. Personally I like everything in its place, and that would not bode well.
I too was disappointed with the shredder, ( I was expecting big things) I ended up cutting everything down to a smaller size before putting it in the compost bin. I have placed a black membrane sheet over the compost bin. Which allows me to water it without removing the sheet. Then once a month I will turn it.

Heres hoping  ::)

Roy
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: David Bracey on January 10, 2013, 01:57:34 PM
I used to turn my compost until I slipped a disc doing it! Now I don!t bother and the compost is just as good.

As far as letting Litter build up a couple of comments. Not a god idea for roses, apples etc where diseases will overwinter. Also some Callistemons produce chemicals which will inhibit plant growth.

THe garden we bought was full of mature evergreen oaks and the resulting leaf litter was many cms thick.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Alisdair on January 10, 2013, 03:21:27 PM
I can certainly back up what Trevor says about the Waite Arboretum - magnificent growth. (Only problem seems to be that the sheep they used to keep the ground growth down have now been banned, so weeds/grasses now make the most of that "automatic compost/mulch"....). Here's one little corner:
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Alice on January 11, 2013, 07:21:56 PM
Re compost making: we have erected a circular metal frame, made from what we think is concrete re-enforcing mesh, and surrounded it with olive netting and plastic sheet. The diameter of the compost bin is about 1.5m and its height approx 1.3m. All the weeds we pull up go in there, together with kitchen waste. We leave it open to the rain in winter and cover it in summer with more plastic sheeting. We have connected it to our drip irrigation system and in summer it gets watered once a week. The middle of the pile produces some decent compost but the edges just dry up. The dry parts can of course be added to the following year's pile.
Title: Re: Composting
Post by: Duncan on September 11, 2013, 11:58:46 AM
There is an MGS produced leaflet on the subject of composting which provides an excellent summary of 'dos and don'ts'

Has anyone any experience of using worm compsters?

Regards, Duncan
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: David Dickinson on February 19, 2018, 03:52:42 AM
Several years later... How are you all getting on with your composting. I have started a small pile. No idea really what is happening as I am loathe to turn it. I remember my father almost spearing a Great Crested Newt to death which was hibernating in the warmth of the compost heap in our family garden in Leeds.  But things do seem to be happening.

Which is more can be said for my request for a composting bin from AMA. AMA are responsible for, among other things, rubbish collection in Rome. Good news is that they provide free composting bins and a reduction in local rates for those who have a garden and compost. Bad news is that they haven't even registered my name at the new address yet let alone begun to process my composting rebate request. Perhaps I am being a little hard on them . After all, it is only just the beginning of my 3rd year of waiting :-(

Any new tips on composting learnt over the yeats since the last posting would be useful.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: Umbrian on February 19, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
After moving to our new house in town I was a little nervous about having a compost heap for fear it might attract vermin and not wanting to upset either neighbours or the local council who do appear to  make great  efforts to keep the very old " Centro Storico" area in which we live as clean as possible. However, old habits die hard and I could not face putting all my lovely vegetable peelings and suchlike into the organic waste bins provided. My heap is inspected regularly and thankfully I have never seen evidence of unwanted visitors although the blackbirds always arrive during "inspections" to plunder the worms.  The results are small, the garden waste being much less due to the greatly reduced size of my new garden, but I do feel it worth while and follow the same course of action as described both by myself in a previous post and fellow compost makers, covering the pile during the hot summer months and watering it occasionally.
I recently posted about my great success with leaf mould that I do separately - such a joy to use and all for free if one has patience.
Title: Re: Composting in a mediterranean climate
Post by: John J on February 19, 2018, 09:55:15 AM
We found the usual problems with conventional compost heaps and abandoned them. We use a similar method for green waste to that described by Trevor, what I tend to describe as 'chop and drop'. For kitchen waste we use a method I saw in the vegetable garden of one of the major hotels in Morocco on one of the MGS trips there. They dig a trench and throw the kitchen waste into it, then they cover it over by digging another trench alongside, and so on and on. The soil is kept moist as the surrounding areas are irrigated and worm and soil micro-organism activity breaks down the waste.