[Daisy]

I know that this is a long shot, but, if anyone has any ideas of this roses identity, I would love to know,
It is growing through an elderflower bush in my village's churchyard.
I have also seen it growing along the road side, usually near a house or village.
It seems to flower for most of the year and is sweetly scented.
It is looking a bit tatty at present, due to the strong winds we have been having.
Daisy

[Trevor Australis]

ID for rose foundlings is rather problematical, sort of plant history, botanical obseration and a pig-in-a-poke guess.

From what you say and by the look of the flowers, leaves, bark, thorns and heps I'd hazzard a remontant 19thC plant with breeding across one of the Chinese reblooming evergreen roses and a Centifolia, less likely a Gallica. That would come down to a Hybrid China, Hybrid Perpetual or a Bourbon rose. My feeling is the shape of the flower and the number of petals rules out the HP option. Now the problem becomes one of how does the plant grow in reasonable garden conditions; not Cretan churchyard conditions. If the growth is tall, willowy, somewhat lax-ish I'd plump for a Bourbon; if bushy and relatively shrub-like I'd suggest a Hybrid China. Any chance of having observed it under good conditions in a garden where it is cared for, watered, pruned, fed etc? I will keep thinking and looking over the holiday season.

[Daisy]

Trevor, Thank-you for your ideas.
I wanted to have another look at another one of these roses, which I knew grew against a sunny wall in my friends garden before replying.
My friends do not cultivate or water their garden at all, so I knew it would be growing naturally there.
It has thrown out a couple of long branches up the wall. They are more stiff than lax.
It certainly has a different shape, to those I see along the rose side.
Those form small bushes, quite rounded in shape, about 3 to 4 feet high.
It does have the look of a china rose in part, but if it is so, it is the only china rose that I have ever been able to smell it's perfume!
Daisy
 

[Jill S]

Daisy,
Following on from Mr Nottle's thoughts regarding your rose I had a quick look at what the Rose sites say about China roses. (I don't think it can be a Bourbon, they always seem to have very fleshy petals which your rose doesn't)
Came up with 'Old Blush China', repeat flowering, shape of bud and flower seem to fit, as do leaves, thorns, habit of growth. They also mention that although mostly a smallish shrub can throw an occassional climber.
It's supposed to have a fair perfume as well, so just possibly?? but have never personally come across this rose so can't speak from experience, the closest I've had has been 'Mutabilis', which to me has no scent at all.
Looks well worth taking some cuttings whatever it is, obviously is happy grow and would be an asset.
Jill

[Trevor Australis]

Hi Daisy and Jill,

As I said ID of 'foundling' roses is risky considering the tens of thousands of old roses that survive still all over the world, mostly where Europeans have settled or traded.

My experience with 'Old Blush' China roses is that it is less full and more blowsy than the rose in your picture. It also has two-tone flowers, quite a pale pink at first opening with the outer petals darkening noticeably as the flower opens and ages. China growth is very, very twiggy tho long water shoots do emerge from time to time, and not only from the base of the plant but also from quite high up. After a few years these fill out with twigs too.

trevor n.