Cyclamen

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oron peri

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2011, 06:41:39 PM »
Infact Jo the names on the CSE are the last given.
Only that it seems they are not accepted by all and most of the collectors and botanic gardens  i know still use the old names...
Personaly i have stopped changing the labels of this group a few years ago, no use as by next monday they might change again and anyway if you grow them all toogether you get all the hybrids...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 11:37:55 AM by oron peri »
Garden Designer, Bulb man, Botanical tours guide.
Living and gardening in Tivon, Lower Galilee region, North Israel.
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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2011, 06:48:11 PM »
Oron, no excuse that's just laziness!
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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jo

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2011, 10:11:44 AM »
I think a probably inaccurate Shakespear quote is in order,   ' a rose would smell as sweet by any other name '.

Oh well Oron, I'll enjoy them until Monday  ;D

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2011, 12:21:00 PM »
Regarding the chromosome count of C. confusum. Melvyn Jope has informed me that it is 2n = 102 (not 96!).
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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jo

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2011, 12:30:56 PM »
So that makes it really different, and possibly explains its chunkiness.  What I don't see the is the supposed similarity with C. h. crassifolium.  The ones of these I have are skinny little things in comparison, very like ordinary C hed. They had been grouped together had they not ?

Does C. h. crassifolium have a scent like confusum by rhe way ?  I don't notice one on mine.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2011, 12:44:02 PM »
If the tetraploid-look plants that are common on the Peloponnese are being called crassifolium, then yes, they often (but not always) are fragrant, as fragrant as the plants being called confusum.
Just a moderator's note on cyclamen naming: as there has been such a flood of proposed name changes in the last few years, with as Oron says no universal acceptance yet, I think it makes sense for this forum to be relaxed about the naming. I don't think we need stick by our usual rule of following the Kew and Missouri Bot Garden Plant List.
To go back to John's point about depth of colour perhaps being influenced by cultivation: the most deeply coloured C. graceum flowers we've seen in the wild have been in areas recently devastated by wild fires - presumably all those nutrients returned to the soil in the ash. 
 
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Hilary

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2011, 02:14:43 PM »
Seen today at Ag Theodori on the Saronic Gulf.
Growing out of the sea pebbles under pine trees near the beach.
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Living in Korinthos, Greece.
No garden but two balconies, one facing south and the other north.
Most of my plants are succulents which need little care

Hilary

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2011, 04:38:12 PM »
I forgot the photo
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Living in Korinthos, Greece.
No garden but two balconies, one facing south and the other north.
Most of my plants are succulents which need little care

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2011, 06:29:45 PM »
Growing there shows how tough these plants are, Hilary; they do seem pretty resistant to salt spray.
That one's Cyclamen graecum.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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jo

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2011, 11:09:36 AM »
Hi Alisdair, I'm fine about being relaxed about naming plants but if a member would like a plant identified and I give one name and Oron gives another is that not rather confusing.  The point of scientific naming is so we all know which plant we are talking about. 


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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #100 on: October 24, 2011, 12:54:54 PM »
Jo, Of course you are right about that. The best thing might be if the knowledgeable cyclamaniacs - who are the only people likely to be using the very latest names - made sure that they listed any aliases in general use at the same time. For instance, as you know, Kew reckon that the correct name for what has recently been called Cyclamen rhodium is still C. repandum subsp. rhodense, while they reckon similarly that Cyclamen rhodium subsp. vividum should still properly be called Cyclamen repandum var. vividum. I don't think it matters which names are used here, but it would help if people using the latest names, that haven't yet won Kew approval, at least mentioned the more familiar ones at the same time. (I'd prefer that to simply citing the authority for the particular name being used, which would be another way of getting around the difficulty but would probably entail too much reference-checking for most of us. And on this forum at least one member took the authority name to be a cultivar name  ;))
Another thing that would be really helpful would be a list of the various recent and less familiar names, with a translation beside them of their more generally known Plant List names. The list should include the rhodiums, of course, plus crassifolium, confusum etc. Would you like to do that for us, Jo?
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

HansA

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #101 on: October 24, 2011, 01:46:57 PM »
Think there should be no discussion about the name of this cyclamen: Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum
bulbgrower on the balearic islands, spain
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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2011, 02:41:57 PM »
I find those graecum subspecies very difficult. Though each of the subspecies has clear characteristics, the species as a whole is so variable that I think the defining features of the various subspecies may just be the extremes of a clinal distribution of those features. But i guess that's an old argument....
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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jo

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2011, 02:44:08 PM »
Well that sounds like a task for a rainy day, amber flood alert in Devon isn't wet enough to keep me in :-\

If anyone would like to check the list its here  http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/search?q=cyclamen

And does anyone have photos of the following accepted species ?

Cyclamen abchasicum,     used to be C coum 'Abchasicum'

Cyclamen adzharicum

Cyclamen circassicum

The second two I don't know but would love seed  :o :o

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oron peri

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2011, 07:58:02 PM »
Hans that is a beauty, mine are realy amazing this seoson with lots of flowers.

Here are a couple of photos i took last week in North Cyprus where this subsp is growing only in two locations in the extreme NW part of the island.
Garden Designer, Bulb man, Botanical tours guide.
Living and gardening in Tivon, Lower Galilee region, North Israel.
Min temp 5c Max 42c, around 450mm rain.