The MGS Forum

Plant identification => Plant identification => Topic started by: Alisdair on October 23, 2011, 06:04:13 PM

Title: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani IDd by Oron as Impatiens balsamina
Post by: Alisdair on October 23, 2011, 06:04:13 PM
Someone cataloguing paintings for a large London church asks for help in identifying the plant held by St Jerome Emiliani, in what seems to be an 18th-century Italian painting of him. He's the patron saint of orphans, but as far as I know is not associated with any particular plant symbol.
The cataloguer thought the plant was a lily, which it obviously isn't. I wondered if it could be some sort of balsam. I've done my best to make the detail picture clearer, but as you can see from the full version it's a bit obscure.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: MikeHardman on October 23, 2011, 08:50:06 PM
Here's an enhanced version.

I wonder about the pink madagascan periwinkle (Catharanthus roseus, ex- Vinca rosea).
Wiki: "the alkaloids vincristine and vinblastine from its sap have been shown to be an effective treatment for leukaemia and lymphoma. ... The extracts are not without their side effects, however, which include hair loss." And I note that dear old St. Jerome seems to be looking up forlornly at his receding hairline :)
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 24, 2011, 07:20:47 AM
Much better picture, Mike, thanks. But it doesn't look enough like Catharanthus, or any of the Apocynaceae, for me to pass on that suggestion.
Any thoughts from anyone else, now that Mike has so much improved the image? Oleander did cross my mind, but that's associated so closely with St. Joseph that unless the saint has been wrongly identified in the picture I rather ruled it out.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: MikeHardman on October 24, 2011, 07:35:58 AM
How about a Daphne?
I think the individual flowers (4-petalled) look about right.
D. mezereum comes to mind, but that tends to flower ahead of leafing-out (though there may be an overlap). But then these paintings may use artistic licence to combine flowering with expanded leaves.
http://www.gardeninginfozone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Daphne-mezereum.jpg
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Fleur Pavlidis on October 24, 2011, 08:00:06 AM
A Clarkia I used to grow in England looked rather like this but now that I look at the 2011 seed catalogues of Sutton and T & M the new varieties don't look anything like it.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Fleur Pavlidis on October 24, 2011, 08:09:55 AM
Impatiens?
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 24, 2011, 08:38:15 AM
All these are at least vague possibles; but I still hope someone can come up with a plant that has an emblematic link to the saint.  :)
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 25, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
I showed the picture to Chris Brickell (co-author of Daphne - the genus in the wild and in cultivation), who writes:
It appears that the flowers possibly have 4 petals (as far as I can judge) so I think it could be a Daphne species as someone suggested but not D. mezereum which would be without foliage when in flower as you mentioned. The leaves could have been added, of course, to present a more imposing effect but my guess is that it might be the evergreen D. sericea which is recorded from Italy and most of the eastern Mediterranean countries. It is quite variable in foliage, most of those in Italy having narrowly obovate leaves, while in the Balkans, Crete and Turkey they are usually lanceolate to broadly lanceolate. The flowers probably have pink exteriors and appear to be white or white flushed pink within as in D. sericea but it is not really possible to give more than cautious guidance as to the identity I am afraid.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 25, 2011, 11:13:36 AM
Here is one of the many bushes of Daphne sericea seen on our MGS trip to SW Turkey in spring last year - it does show some similarity to St Jerome's staff, as suggested by Chris.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: oron peri on October 25, 2011, 11:23:08 AM
I would have thought of a compleetly different direction: Aristolochia.
A few species of Aristolochia were  used as medicinal plants at that time, it is hard to see the flower in particulars, still it might be for example A. indica, used as atreat againts Cholera. [Easier to notice the formin the second flower from below]
Another plant that crossed my mind is Impatiens balsamina, used as well as a medicinal plant.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 25, 2011, 11:34:17 AM
Impatiens balsamina (I guess the one that both Fleur and I had in mind, without being able to put the exact name to it) does seem a very strong candidate, with its many uses as a herbal remedy, as well as its general similarity to the plant in the picture.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: oron peri on October 25, 2011, 01:26:27 PM
Yes, i'll go with that..
Impatiens balsamina!
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 25, 2011, 02:44:02 PM
Terrific match, Oron!
I'll pass it on.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Umbrian on October 26, 2011, 07:54:25 AM
What a fascinating topic Alisdair introduced, I have followed the replies with great interest and am glad that the mystery seems to have been solved. As the Italians are very "into" saints, their calenders have a saint for every day of the year, I have been asking various friends here if they knew af St Jerome Emiliani and any stories connected to him but had drawn a complete blank.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: David Bracey on October 26, 2011, 09:50:28 AM
Alisdair, this is real botanical detective work and the MGS should be able to use it to promote the organisation.  Perhaps an article in the FT, TMG or the RC Times ?  Do members have other ideas?
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 26, 2011, 11:16:32 AM
What we are still missing, to complete the detective story, is an emblematic link between the saint and his balsam staff. He was very active during a bubonic plague episode but so far as I know this plant never became known as a protector from the plague.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: David Bracey on October 26, 2011, 02:04:02 PM
The staff could be simply representative after all balsam is hardly strong enough to make a staff.  I will see what I have.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Cali on October 26, 2011, 02:40:48 PM
Knowing more about language than botany, I would venture that the word "balsam", or its variations in other languages but usually meaning "balm" (the same word probably) has been used to describe a variety of plants. Here in Corfu, for example, the name βάλσαμο (Balsamo, in case our forum doesn't do Greek) is used for a variety of spearmint, known in english as "Eau de Cologne"mint. (It invaded my annual bed a few years ago and practically evicted the lawful occupants.) What I'm getting at, if I haven't succeeded in confusing the issue,  is that the artist used the Balsam as symbolic of all medicinal balms.
Title: Re: Flower held by St Jerome Emiliani
Post by: Alisdair on October 26, 2011, 03:11:04 PM
Cali, That sounds the right track. And the soothing or calming quality of balsam would fit well with his work for orphans.