The MGS Forum
Plants for mediterranean gardens => Bulbs (including other geophytes with corms, tubers, rhizomes etc) => Topic started by: pamela on September 24, 2011, 06:00:02 PM
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Is anyone growing Narcissis poeticus in mediterranean regions? I am very keen to grow them but I think the N. tazetta is really the best one for our climate. I would love to know any experiences.
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I'm sure you are right, about N. tazetta being better for your climate than N. poeticus. Poeticus does grow very widely right across the northern Mediterranean from Spain to Greece and beyond, right down to sea level. But it really likes damp, even boggy, ground.
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I remember that we saw masses of them in the Zagoria in 2008 in a mountain field , there was plenty of water there, it was almost like a swamp.
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Thanks, Jorun - brings back happy memories of that fascinating trip to the Epirus in northern Greece! We ought to post more pictures of it, either in Species Seen or in the section on places to visit. :)
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This meadow was very rich and I liked the association of the Narcissus with the Veratrum leaves as in Jorun's second picture.
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This is useful information, I always thought poeticus was a true alpine. It not even sprouted on those several occasions we tried it.
Pamela, there are a good number of tazetta varieties nowadays, some clean and extremely vigorous. You can make them increase rapidly. And the old varieties are lovely.
Then you have N. jonquilla, broussonettii, serotinus, elegans, viridiflorus,aureus/canaliculatus, etc. Not to faint at but giving some variety to the picture. Jonquilla is stunning when well grown.
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Narcissus tazetta always a lovely extra surprise when it comes up alongside a cyclamen - here, C. graecum, in the Greek Peloponnese.
[attachthumb=2]
Narcissus serotinus, also scented, seems particularly cheerful and light-hearted, and again charming in the company of other wild bulbs. Here, also in the Peloponnese, it's with that often overlooked little scilla, perhaps in sheer population the most numerous of all Mediterranean wild bulbs, Prospero autumnale (syn. Scilla autumnalis):
[attachthumb=1]
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Jonquils do very well in pots, too. This picture is of Narcissus wilkommii - a very close relative of N. jonquilla, if not part of the same species - grown from seed in Mediterranean conditions but under frost-free glass in the UK. In fact I left the seedlings in their original 5-inch pot until it became really crowded, then replanted them in this 3-litre long tom pot.
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I know that Rafa is a narcissi specialist, he may be able to provide advice.
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Is anyone growing Narcissis poeticus in mediterranean regions? I am very keen to grow them but I think the N. tazetta is really the best one for our climate. I would love to know any experiences.
Pamela,
Just to add more to Ezeiza's suggestions,
There are many Narcissus you can grow under your conditions,
First of all there are many Narcissus species which are native to Spain and Portugal that are sutible.
I would reccomend for autumn bloom: N. elegans, N. obsoletus and N. serotinus, N. virdiflorus which is not very showy but most intresting, the only problem with these is the short period of blooming but they can all naturalize easily in the garden
For Winter, Narcissus tazetta and all its cultivars , some start early while a few cultivars can bloom in mid to late winter just a few to mention: 'Geranium', 'Chinese Sacred', ' Grand Solie d'Or' , Avalanche', all heavenly scented!!!
N. papyraceus is a beauty but not every one likes the scent.
Some cultivars and hybrids which do not need very cold winter and can grow in drier conditions, good for a much longer blooms and for making good clumps:
N. 'Hawra' - is Excelent!!
N. 'Tete - a - Tete'
Bigger Daffodils:
'Ice follies'
'King albert'
'Erlicheer' - double form
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As Oron says, Hawera is a lovely plant but many commercial stocks have virus. :'(
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Virused stocks are a real problem today, mainly when bulbs grown on very large scale; Tulips, Narcissus , Crocus etc.
Therefor i always recommend to buy from the smaller, well known bulb specialists.
As they have a reputation to keep they will sell only clean material.
A few years ago i bought some bulbs from a grower in England which called me after he sent the parcel asking me to destroy it immediately upon arrival as he suspected one species was virused..
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Not as a rule possible with cultivars, but with bulb species of course the safest (and cheapest) thing is to raise your plants from seed. Almost all the lily species I've had I have raised from seed, as lilies are particularly prone to virus. Yes, it's true that a lot of bulb species can take some years to reach flowering size, but once you've started, if you sow seed of some species each year you'll very soon reach a point where, every year, all sorts of plants that you'd almost forgotten about are coming into flower for the first time - a very exciting and satisfying sort of production line!
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Can not agree more!!!
Not only that and the huge sutisfaction but as you always wait for something.. it prolongs your life...as one can not leave this life without seeing what he had just sown..
Some species need even 7 to 10 years befor they set the first flower.
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Yes (I've had 11 or 12 years even - but I suspect that's because I give the poor babies a rough life!). But some of course come to flower within a year or not much more, even a few off-topic lilies such as L. longiflorum or L. formosanum.
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'Hawera' grown in New Zealand is clean.
'Tete a Tete', produced by the trillion as a pot plant is generally regarded as a virus within a plant's shape but the Dutch have cleaned stock by tissue culture.
Propagating from seed is only valid for species. One can not grow a variety from its own seed and obtain the same one. That is the almost unsurpassable barrier with hybrids: once they got virused, it is goodbye.
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I managed to flower Lilium formosanum in 3 months from germinating which I'm sure is a fluke but it is fast. On the other hand I sowed some seed of Iris ibirica which took seven years to germinate but I did eventually get it to flowering! These things weren't an issue when I was in my 30's, now though?
I am still growing trees though (see Platanus orientalis) but passing them on to others!!!!!
Today my first Narcissus tazetta came out which is what I intended to say.
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Thanks so much everyone for the ideas. I do love white Narcissus but they are quite messy for months after when the leaves are flopping and then going yellow. I am going to try and find some of the suggestions for naturalising. Meanwhile I enclose a photo of mine in January and which I have always thought were N. tazetta...am I right?
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Pamela, foliage in tazetta hybrids grow really messy after flowering. A lot more bulky and floppy than in daffodils. Of course in either case green foliage can not be cut back or no flowers next year.
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What a beautiful picture of N. poeticus, Jorun. It shows so well the delightful way the petals turn back. It is quite lovely in that clump.
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It was a fantastic place, Pamela I actually cropped the photo a bit too much, the big clump was nicely framed by some very healthy-looking veratrums, the combination was perfect, as John said
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Could you experts tell me what the effects of the viruses in bulbs, narcissus and others, are and whether it is possible to recognise it on the bulb itself?
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You surely hit the nest! In the bulb, corm, etc. it is impossible to see any sign of infection, what makes the whole thing really serious, since the virus is present in all part of the plant, including roots. It is also present in any dry part of the bulb like dry leaves and roots and tunics. There is a large range of vectors and a number of different viruses that affect plants. Some weaken the plants slowly, others are demolishing. The infection by more than one is disastrous and recent research show they may have new and ingenious ways to leap from plant to plant.
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It's in the growing plant that you see the results of virus infection, above all in a general weakness, poor flowering, lack of increase. It's much more often this poor growth that shows, than particular visible symptoms; lots of the viruses that do affect narcissuses don't actually have visible outward symptoms. Sometimes a narcissus can even tolerate one virus without being weakened, but often they get infected by more than one, in which case the general deterioration can get quite dramatic.
One or two individual viruses do have visible symptoms in growing plants, though. In narcissus, the commonest of these is probably yellow stripe virus, which may produce curly and/or finely streaked leaves, and/or streaky flowers, and perhaps deformed flower stems. Another warning sign is what looks like bruised purplish streaking up leaves or stems, fading to white, with the leaves then dying off - that's probably white streak virus.
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I love Narcissus tazetta 'Avalanche' because it blooms in March and it a reliable plant blooming every year.
Narcissus tazetta 'Constantinopol' is also great, although it flowering heads are often too heavy after rain showers, the bulb will split and form an impressive blooming clump.
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Thank you for that Alisdair..very useful.... I hadn't read the rest of that thread.
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I've been unsuccessfully searching for a photo from 2003 when the then garden assistant at the MGS garden, Silvia Villegas who'll be in Mallorca for those of you going, was sitting in the front terrace plaiting the leaves of Paperwhites. They were works of art. Sally has never found anyone among the volunteers to do them so well. Tying the leaves into a knot stops the flop but doesn't look so good.
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A natural hybrid from Spain: Narcissus x perez-larae is in bloom :D
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Lovely picture, Miriam!
The hybrid Narcissus perezlarae has an interesting history. When it was discovered in the 19th century, one parent N. cavanillesii was thought not to be a narcissus at all and was called Carregnoa humilis (syn. Braxireon humile, or Tapeinanthus humilis), so it was originally described as Carregnoa dubia. The hybrid then disappeared, being rediscovered in the 1960s – it now seems that new populations are continuing to emerge spontaneously from time to time. By then the single-species Carregnoa genus had been merged into Narcissus. (Paul Christian calls that parent N. humilis, but that is a synonym of N. cavanillesii. The other parent is N. serotinus.)
See some interesting notes by Isabel Marques on the cross-pollination of the two parent species here (http://www.amjbot.org/content/94/8/1352.full.pdf+html).
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Thank you for this interesting information!
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Beautiful plants, Miriam!
Here one of my favourite Narcissus is flowering: Narcissus viridiflorus
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Beautiful, Hans (and appetite-whetting - I think I have a pot of seedlings coming on); thanks for sharing!
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Wonderful Hans!
Narcissus x alleniae is in flower here.
muchas gracias Rafa!
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Fascinating to see this rare and only recently described natural hybrid, Miriam: wonderful, thanks!
In the wild, whereabouts in the distribution of its N. viridiflora parent is it found, on the Algeciras side of the Straits of Gibraltar, or on the Moroccan side?
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I have just gone outside to take a couple of photos. This is my Narcissus Ziva, planted mid October.
Some plants just can't wait to show off!
Daisy :)
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/016-3.jpg)
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/014-7.jpg)
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Sorry. I meant to say mid September. ???
Daisy :)
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Wow! very well done guys, my clones are behaving like southern hemisphere plants, they are still in dormancy!
Narcissus x alleniae is not actually new, it is a well know hybrid since Rutherford mentioned it in 1971 in The Daffodil and Tulip Year Book and also it was illustrated 1970 in the same publication. Donnison Morgan only validate it, but It was described by Rutherford.
Since Narcissus serotinus L. in fact contains two species: N. obsoletus Haworth (Steudel) (in Mediterranean countries) and Narcissus serotinus L. (in North East Morocco, South East Spain and South Portugal), it might be neccesary to rename both hybrids:
Narcissus viridiflorus Schoub. x Narcissus obsoletus Haworth (Steudel). I would suggest N. x rutherfordii
Narcissus viridiflorus Schoub. x Narcissus serotinus L. This hybrid is only possible in Morocco.
Narcissus viridiflorus grows in Cadiz (Spain) and North Morocco. In Spain is a protected species, but many of its inhabits are being distroying by golf camps and illegal developpments.
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Thanks very much for that, Rafa.
Can you clear up a couple of further points for us?
1. Should we be using the name N. obsoletus instead of N. serotinus for "N. serotinus" whenever it occurs in Europe apart from SE Spain and S Portugal?
2. Does the hybrid with N. viridiflorus crop up in both the Cadiz area and Morocco?
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1. Personally I support always the older name, because is the legitime. Many botanist described Narcissus miniatus before, under other names and it seems Haworth is the older. But all these names were not accepted considering it was in fact Narcissus serotinus L. somthing really not incredible because they are completely different geografically, anatomicaly and genetically.
Everybody can support the name he considered more legitime, but N. miniatus is the newest from a log list of names.
Narcissus serotiuns L. in Europe only grows in Portugal (Algarve) and Spain (Huelva, Sevilla, Cáceres and Badajoz).
If you want to recognize both species, I would think:
Mediterranean element--> N. obsoletus
Atlantic element--> N. serotinus
Orange corona--> Narcissus obsoletus
Yellow corona--> Narcissus serotinus
With a leave when blooms or not-->N. obsoletus
Without leave when blooms---> N. serotinus
One or several flowers per scape---> N. obsoletus
One flower (rarely two) flowers per scape-->N. serotinus
Perianth tube without segments, narrow--> N. obsoletus
Perianth tube with segments, like a wine bottle---> N. serotinus
Genetically, they are also different and some authors suggest Narcissus obsoletus has a hybrid origin,it would be a successful hybrid between N. elegans and N. serotinus. The sterile hybrid was also called N. x obsoletus and more recently N. x perangustus.
It is also interesting to say Narcissus obsoletus has much variability:
Greenish tepals (called var. fallax)
Narrow tepals (var. oxypetalus)
Peach tepals (collected by K.G.N)
And also another variety var. intermedia, that some people considered as an hybrid between N. serotinus and N. obosletus. This is interesting to me, because I consider N. serotinus is uniflower, but there is a region between Cordoba and Sevilla where there are both species and intermediate plants.
2. Yes, the hybrid is in both countries, and there is probably an hybrid between N. serotinus L. and N. viridiflorus in Morocco, but not in Europe.
This year I would like to find N. viridiflorus x N. cavanillesii, but finally I couldn't visit Cadiz...
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Terrific, Rafa, that's a really helpful guide! Thanks very much.
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Superb plant Miriam!
Can only agree with Alisdair! Rafa, your contribution is fantastic!
Here is an Narcissus I received together with a few more as N. serotinus - following your description it is clearly not but I also have doubts it is N.obsoletus as it has leaves which look something similar to N. elegans - both N. obsoletus and N.elegans I grow look very different...
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Magnific plants!, specially to me N. elegans.
have a look to the recent picrtures of autumn narcissi that my friend JoaquÃn Ramirez did last week
http://www.flickr.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/sets/72157607466185346/?page=5
http://www.flickr.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/sets/72157607466185346/?page=4
and also that lusus naturae, maybe a failed hybridation try between N x alleniae and N. x perez-larae.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/naturalezadeandalucia/6360176385/in/photostream
all the best,
Rafa.
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Wow Rafa.
There are some excellent pics in there. Great details.
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The Narcissus elegans is just magnific! 19 flowers per scape!! and this is totaly new character to this species that only happen in Peninsula Iberica locality.
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Rafa - I, too, am very thankful for your posts here.
The ones I have seen in Cyprus (on the Akamas Peninsula, 22oct07, attached) seem to key out as N. obsoletus, but not by ticking all the boxes.
To annotate your list of dignostic characters:
Mediterranean element--> Narcissus obsoletus
Atlantic element--> N. serotinus
--> Cyprus --> N. o.
Orange corona--> Narcissus obsoletus
Yellow corona--> Narcissus serotinus
--> mine looks like a darkish yellow, not orange --> N. s.
With a leave when blooms or not-->N. obsoletus
Without leave when blooms---> N. serotinus
--> mine have flowers but no leaves --> N. s.
(the leaf-like shoot in photo 1 may be flower stems where the flowers have been eaten-off, or non-flowering plants)
One or several flowers per scape---> N. obsoletus
One flower (rarely two) flowers per scape-->N. serotinus
--> one flower per scape --> N. o.
Perianth tube without segments, narrow--> N. obsoletus
Perianth tube with segments, like a wine bottle---> N. serotinus
--> narrow tube --> N. o.
Note also the difference in width of the petals. The plants were only a few hundered metres apart.
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Oh wow! that Narcissus serotinus is so so beautiful! :)
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Just back from a hike to the lighthouse near the northern tip of the Akamas Peninsula (lovely day for it).
Quite a few narcissus in flower (along with Hyacinthella millingeni (many), Bellis sylvestris (many) and Romulea tempskyana (a few). Nice.
They seem to key out as N. obsoletus, but (again) not by ticking all the boxes.
To annotate Rafa's list of diagnostic characters:
Mediterranean element--> Narcissus obsoletus
Atlantic element--> N. serotinus
--> Cyprus --> N. o.
Orange corona--> Narcissus obsoletus
Yellow corona--> Narcissus serotinus
--> mine looks yellow, not orange --> N. s.
With a leave when blooms or not-->N. obsoletus
Without leave when blooms---> N. serotinus
--> I saw some with just a leaf --> N. o.
One or several flowers per scape---> N. obsoletus
One flower (rarely two) flowers per scape-->N. serotinus
--> often several flowers flower per scape --> N. o.
Perianth tube without segments, narrow--> N. obsoletus
Perianth tube with segments, like a wine bottle---> N. serotinus
--> narrow tube --> N. o.
Is the corona somewhat large?
[update - see Oron's identification as N. tazetta]
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Mike,
The narcissus is N. tazetta.
[N. obsoletus bloom is over by now]
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Ahh; that would explain the large corona.
But the entry for N. tazetta in the dynamic checklist of the Flora of Cyprus (http://www.flora-of-cyprus.eu/?q=cdm_dataportal/taxon/2b5dad65-4028-4a70-afa1-314852126144)
does not include N. tazetta in the relevant geographical division (division 1).
(and I have checked that it has not been added in the contributions and supplementary notes 1-VI).
Do you know of any other records for N. tazetta in division 1?
I'll wait to hear from you then perhaps I shall need to get in contact with Ralf Hand.
Update:
- somebody else (Peter Greenwoods) has found it in division 1 (near Polis) -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21657471@N04/5489765716/in/set-72157626056434911/
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dear friends, sorry for the delay replying.
Mike your plants ar N. obsoletus, the colour of corona in this species is very variable, normally orange, it also could be more or less yellowish / greeish, N. serotinus always is the same color yellow.
Very interenting Narcissus tazetta, I've never seen such a large corona in this species. Is it fertile?
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Rafa
Thanks for confirming N. obsoletus in earlier post.
I don't know if the N. tazetta is fertile; unfortunately I'll may not be able to go that way again to check for seed at the right time.
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Would like to throw a spanner in the works of the posts around mid/late oct 2011, regarding the name Narcissus miniatus. Would appreciate comments, but the text goes to publication soon, so if you think that I may have missed something, please let me know.
Narcissus miniatus Donn.-Morg., Koop. & Zonn., Daffodil Snowdrop Tulip Yearb. 2005-2006: 22 (2005).
Taxonomy
This little plant has become the object of controversy since its publication in 2005.
Most recently it has been suggested that it should be considered as Narcissus obsoletus (Haw.) Spach, Hist. Nat. Veg. 12: 452 (1846). However, the descriptions given are not of the plant described and illustrated as Narcissus miniatus.
Spach in Histoire Naturelle des Végétaux vol. 12 p. 452 (1846) describes the plant as 2 flowered with very narrow, rush-like, leaves (junciformis). Perianth segments oval-oblong, pointed, overlapping (imbricate). Corona, small, yellow. At this point Spach refers to Haworth’s description of Hermione obsoleta. Supplementum Plantarum Succulentarum: 146 (1819).
Haworth describes the plant as the ‘Leafy Autumnal’, with leaves with or just before the flowers; perianth segments white, nearly ovate; corona small, rudimentary, becoming yellowish. Haworth also cedes to Parkinson, remarking that ‘This is admitted solely on the faith of Parkinson, and has not, that I know of, been seen in our day’.
In Paradisi in Sole Paradisus Terrestris (1629) John Parkinson writes of ‘Narcissus albus Autumnalis medio obsoletus. The white Autumne Daffodill with a sullen crowne. This Autumne Daffodill hath two or three leaves at the most, and very narrow, for that form does reckon it among the Rush Daffodils, being somewhat broad at the bottome, and more pointed at the toppe, betweene there leaves commeth up the stalk, bearing usually two flowers and no more at the toppe, made up of five white leaves apiece, pointed and not round: the cup is small and round, like unto the cup or crowne of the Rush Daffodill, of a yellow colour at the bottome, but towards the edge of a dunne or sullen colour’.
These descriptions vary considerably with the original description of Narcissus miniatus given below and cannot be considered to be synonymous with it.
Description
Bulb: 50 mm diam, dark brown, ovate.
Leaves: not present on flowering plants
Scape: 1 – 4, (80-) 120 -180 (-300 mm) x (1-) 1.5 – 3 (-4 mm) elongating after flowering, round, green, striated.
Flowers: (1) 2 – 4 (5-7) per scape, ascending or horizontal to 50mm diam. Tepals: white, apiculate to mucronate, flat or twisted, 10 – 25 mm x 3 – 10 mm. Corona; opening greenish-brown maturing to orange, to 3 mm x 0.5 – 2 mm high, 3 – 6 lobed. Pedicels; smooth, green (5-) 10 – 15 (-30 mm). Tube; 12 – 19 mm x 2 – 3 mm at widest point immediately below ovary, tapering gradually not inflated.
Anthers: Included
Style: Included
Fruit: A capsule 5.5 – 14.5 x 5 – 7.5 mm
Seed: black, angular 3 x 2 mm
Chrom: 2n = 30
DNA (pg): 50.5 (aver.)
Many morphological differences set this plant apart from other similar forms of
autumn flowering Narcissus. Narcissus elegans, which has leaves at flowering time
and N. serotinus, which has a single flower, with a yellow cup and an inflated tube.
DNA analysis suggests that Narcissus miniatus arose from the hybridisation of N.
serotinus with N. elegans and the subsequent doubling of the hybrid’s chromosome
number.
Distribution: Throughout the Mediterranean, especially the north coast and islands. It appears to be absent from Morocco and this may extend eastwards on the southern Mediterranean coast.
Flowering: September – October.
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There was a plant which looked very vigourous with two flowers per stem in the Mani, south Peloponnese. I took it to be a good form of N. serotinus but now I'm not so sure. It may have been this species!?
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I think all those botanist described the same plant that is very very variable, but not Narcissus elegans which is a costal/island element from Mediterranean sea, and it is not present in Peninsula Iberica. The only similar species, Narcissus malacitanus, is a relict population with arround 3000 plants, in a very hide mountain range, so the most plausible is Parkinson drew the plant so many times called N. serotinus.
Anyway, there is no obligation in follow a particular name or other name in taxonomy, there is a general agreement between taxonomist and I suppose this is that finally is accepted. But this puzzle me a lot, some names not valid are still apearing in the official list like IPNI, KEW etc. So I think each one should choose the name that he consider more legitime after know the plants, and the diferent names it receives..... Appart this, there is a reality that I can't understand, narcissus obsoletus (the name I personally support) and N. serotinus are two diferent species, but completely diferents and all the tries to separated them in the past were not successful, why?
For example there is an species Narcissus blancoi Barra, Gines Lopez wich is not accepted in Flora Iberica and also not accepted by the most important taxonomist in this field. This is an species that I know very well and I support it. So I will use Narcissus blancoi, because this is the only name for this species, unless it has been described by other author with other name.
Derrick consider N. minuatus a valid name, although is not gerealy accepted by most of taxonomist in this field, I consider valid N. blancoi although nobody (appart their authors) support it, Flora Iberica consider there is only N. bulbocodium (Linnean one) and the rest of plants are only "the normal variability of the species" we are all wrong and right, because the prooves are not like in mathematics 2+2=4. There are many ways of understand this genus, and mine is completely different from taxonomist in many senses, and it links to understand other genus as the same way.
I consider more important geohgraphical, chemical scent composition or pigment composition of the colour than IDNA studies or measures, it could give you a very chaotic idea from the species that currently grow in the nature. For example I support Narcissus nivalis Graells (there is no better name I think) the same species done diferent measures and DNA results depending the the soil and the altitude in the same mountai. This is why there are so many names, forms, varieties for the same species.
My theory might works because since I am thinking in this idea I discover 5 or 6 species considered hybrids all this time by taxonomists. I am also collaborating in another work about Alkaloids that will change many concepts about this genus.
John your plant is a Mediterranean element, that is currently called N. miniatus and N. obsoletus, you choose, but for sure it is not N. serotinus.
all the best,
Rafa
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John, My own experience of this narcissus in the Peloponnese and on Crete, the plant that as Rafa says is currently accepted as N. obsoletus and that Derrick has suggested should be called N. miniatus, is that the number of flowers depends on cultural conditions. In dry and undernourished conditions, individual plants will normally have just the one flower, but if well nourished (as they were in that splendid population you and I both saw in a hen run on Crete about ten years ago) those same plants will have two or even three flowers to a stem.
I think Rafa is right - there will be no certainty about the naming of quite a few narcissus species until DNA testing has really got into its stride. But I agree with him that observations of living plants in their natural environments, taking into account all the factors that are necessarily absent from herbarium specimens (let alone from ancient authors' descriptions of them), are by far the best guide to appropriate naming of "awkward" species or populations. That's why for instance Mark Skinner's work on lily species in the Flora of North America (vol. 26) has been so very valuable.
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Controversy has always surrounded the naming of Narcissus and over the centuries many eminent botanists have attempted revision and simplification. In the earliest days of taxonomy, botanists would only occasionally see the plants they were naming. Much was done by communication in the form of letters from one botanist to another, or by line drawings. None of these methods was reliable. Embellishments and artistic licence was ever rampant and the plant was rarely captured ‘warts and all’. Many specimens sent to botanists for naming, arrived in an unrecognisable condition.
Such names as Narcissus juncifolius autumnalis flore viridi (John Parkinson ‘Paradisi in sole paradises terrestris’ 1629) whilst descriptive has been fortunately replaced by Narcissus viridiflorus in accordance with the binomial system as described by Carl Linnaeus (1707 – 1778) in his definitive works Genera plantarum (1742) and Species plantarum (1753). However, such names as Scilla peruviana and Narcissus cantabricus are themselves unhelpful. Richard Anthony Salisbury (1761 – 1829) did a great deal of work naming and renaming botanical specimens. Much of his work has been dismissed as plagiarism.
It isn’t until relatively recently that botanists have been able to study and observe plants in the wild, long after most of them have been named or misnamed. DNA studies have further enhanced our understanding of plants and their place in evolutionary botany to such an extent that plant relationships and names have needed to be amended to acknowledge the associations.
Taxonomy is not, as Rafa agrees, an exact science and even now, with all the 21st century knowledge at our fingertips, we still manage to get it wrong sometimes. I relay the wisdom of a past horticultural lecturer ‘The plant knows what it is’. Unfortunately the plants don’t pass their knowledge easily to us but equally fortunately they don’t read books.
A word should be said here about splitters and lumpers. The former are a curious breed of botanist that seems to believe that every form, variant and occasional exception to the norm, should be treated as a separate subspecie or even specie. Many of these differences are simply based on measurements and cannot therefore be regarded as reliable. Amounts of light, shade, soil depth and type will be factors in determining the strength and stature of a plant. Many research botanists, no doubt eager to retain University or Government funding, publish these names, only to discount them in subsequent publications. Lumpers, to which I would rather be associated, recognise that variations exist in all large populations of plants, and whilst these are interesting, they cannot be said to be sufficiently different or genetically stable to justify separate identities.
Narcissus miniatus is always
1. Multiflowered, 2 – 7 flowers per scape. The stronger, more floriferous plants are seen in Southern Spain (Mike Salmon = var. grandiflorus [private correspondence]) with weaker 2 flowered plants towards the western Mediterranean populations – (MS = var. occidentalis).
2. No leaves appear with or after the flowers. Only non flowering plants have leaves. These are seedling leaves, round and bright green. N. elegans has leaves at time of flowering and as Rafa says, is not represented in Spain.
3. The corona is greenish-brown becoming bright orange. Not yellow as in N. serotinus. Or inrolled at the mouth as in N. elegans. (N. elegans has a distinct corona that is broader at the base than at the mouth, giving it a volcano crater type shape)
4. N. serotinus has an obvious inflated floral tube. N. miniatus has a tube that gradually tapers.
Narcissus obsoletus from its earliest descriptions bears little resemblance to N. miniatus. I agree that the past descriptions may have been the fault of poor observation, communication and/or embellished drawings, but should we assume that the plant described is the one we are now looking at and compound this further with another error in plant taxonomy?
Narcissus nomenclature differs, depending on the authority one decides to choose. The RHS as the registration authority for Narcissus regards N. miniatus as a valid name and N x obsoletus as a hybrid between N. elegans & N. serotinus. Ben Zonneveld, obviously accepts N. miniatus as a valid name and supports this with his work ‘The Systematic value of nuclear DNA content for all species of Narcissus’ (2008). Kew accept N. obsoletus, relying on the work by Lifante & Camacho of 2007, which does not cite (and therefore did not discuss) the previous work by Donnison-Morgan, Koopowitz and Zonneveld in 2005.
Thank you Rafa, Alistair & Mike for your input into this discussion. Whilst there cannot be a consensus, it is important that views are expressed. I look forward to your further posts.
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To be sincere, I am not so intereting in names than in to know the esence of this genus, learning the geografical distribution, the relationships between species and the evolutive consecuences it will have. But obviously we have to name the species to be able a comunication between us. I am sure, if I said, N. obsoletus Derrik will understand me, as the same way I will understand him if he talk about N. miniatus, because it is the same plant, and this is the important concept here.
I wouldn't and I don't have (and nobody have to) justify why to use a name or other name, but I think it is impossible this particular plant has been not described in the past because it occurs in several countries arround Mediterraneans see, so it is probablly there are many prioritary older names, example: N. deficiens N. obsoletus... I don't know wich one to use, but surely the older name. This is the problem for taxonomist.
In other cases I don't know any valid name, for example in bulbocodium section. Linneo said "Narcissus bulbocodium L. grows between Sevilla and Portugal" this is like nothing because there are many species between these area. For this reason some botanist, suggest me to use Corbularia 1 (Guadarrama Mt Range/Gredos Mt. Range/ Estrella Mt. Range) Corbularia 2 (Ciudad Real, Toledo, Extremadura) Corbularia 4 (Guadalajara, Cuenca)... and so because I consider each N. bulbocodium subspecies as diferent species.
Other case of greenhouse taxonomy is Narcissus minor "grows in Hispania" OK, where?, because there are arround 5 differnet species isolated in 5 different geo-biological units in Spain. So conventional taxonomy is a tool that could be used to arrive very close, but there are other considerations that should be also important and new technics that should me used to determine the species in certain complex genus like narcissus.
I would like to refine Derrik coment, N. miniatus/obsoletus/deficiens, could have 1-8 flowers, this character depedns (I think) of the maturity of the bulbs like in other species like N. triandrus subsp. pallidulkus/N. cernuus that also could have 1 to 8 flowers. There are localities where you can find at the seme time palnts blooming with a leaf and others without leaf. Ther are plants very vigorous and plants very graceful. This is the real own variability in the species, in the same pupulation you can find a huge range of tepals forms, corona colour aswell... One of the most beautiful form I've seen in pictures is the one that Gerd Knoche selected, with peachy tepals.
N. serotinus also could have two flowers per scpape, curiously I find it in areas where it is the distribution limit of N. obosletus, and I consider this kind of plants as new crosses between (in this order) N. serotinus x N. obosletus ... In narcissus at least, is not the same AxB than BxA.
Fist thing to determine both species: geographical origin (be careful with plants between Cordoba and Sevilla, because they are together)
Second, Perianth tube.
Third, corona colour.
all the best,
Rafa.
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Narcissus miniatus is always
1. Multiflowered, 2 – 7 flowers per scape. The stronger, more floriferous plants are seen in Southern Spain (Mike Salmon = var. grandiflorus [private correspondence]) with weaker 2 flowered plants towards the western Mediterranean populations – (MS = var. occidentalis).
2. No leaves appear with or after the flowers. Only non flowering plants have leaves. These are seedling leaves, round and bright green. N. elegans has leaves at time of flowering and as Rafa says, is not represented in Spain.
3. The corona is greenish-brown becoming bright orange. Not yellow as in N. serotinus. Or inrolled at the mouth as in N. elegans. (N. elegans has a distinct corona that is broader at the base than at the mouth, giving it a volcano crater type shape)
4. N. serotinus has an obvious inflated floral tube. N. miniatus has a tube that gradually tapers.
Following this key I do not know what species is growing on the Balearic Islands, it fits with most points of this description but normally every bulb only produce one scape with one flower, rarly you can find a plant with two or three flowers. Even in cultivation in best conditions one flower is the rule. Leaves do not appear on flowering bulbs. (pictured in reply #40 as N. obsoletus)
N. elegans is listed for Mallorca and Ibiza. http://herbarivirtual.uib.es/eng-med/especie/4909.html
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Hans, the plants you grow are N. obsoletus/deficiens/miniatus, all the characters mentioned are normal in the variability of this species. Recently in SRGC, a member pictured a plant with one meter long leaf, and I think this is as well an adaptation to the particular conditions there. N. elegans is easy to recognize from N. obsoletus, as it is a vigorous plant comparing N. obsoletus, it is glaucous, it has 2 erect leaves per bulb, many vegetative division and several flowers with a dark orange corona with out segments, like a cup.
The plants in the link seems N. obsoletus x N. elegans, but definitively not N. elegans. Sorry I have not better picture of N. elegans corona :-\
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The kind of field experience that Rafa has been acquiring over the years is not easy to achieve. I listen very carefully to his conclusions for he has been seeing lots of populations and their antural variants and it is to be expected that he is slowly buidling hos own system. Seeing the way DNA work is being done (necessarily very patchy and limited in material) it will take many years before a valid conclusion is reached. One thing is certain: Rafa's field work is unique in its scope and extent. Most often that same work is done within herbarium walls.
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Pic of N. elegans showing clearly the form of the corona. Just noticed a glaring error in my previous post. N. miniatus seems to be much weaker in the EASTERN mediterranean, where I have studied it in Cyprus, Crete, Greece and Turkey. This was named var. ORIENTALIS by Mike Salmon (private correspondence - unpublished). Plants from Spain (Valencia through to Cadiz), particularly at the type locality in Seville are much stronger and robust plants (Var. grandiflorus). I'll try and find a pic from the type locality for a later post.
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Thank you Ezeiza, I am just a simple amateur, nothing scientific in my oppinions.
Beautiful pic Derrick.
There is a sentece in the study of this genus that is used frecuently: "it is the normal variability of the the species" it is not wrong, but I think it is used in cases that there are in fact two species involved. It could be the case of N. obosletus/miniatus/deficiens, I don't think so. I admire Mike, he knows better than me this species, but seening in Spain certain localities this is one of the cases that I would say "it is the normal variability of the species". As it probably has a hybrid origin, I suppose in this process of speciation, there were many lineages and tendeces to be more "elegans" or more "serotinus" (if they really were its parents) and I think there is of course another speciation way which is the Darwinian adaptation to the environment conditions. Thinking in this, it is normal such amount of forms varieties etc... maybe is not neccesary to make more diferences, because they are not forms or varieties in a particular geographic regions, it is in the same paopulation that you could see many kind of forms. Otherwise you will have hundreds of forms.
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Herewith pic of N. miniatus at type locality
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In late January the Saturday market in Kalamata (Greek Peloponnese) was full of people selling big bunches of wild Narcissus tazetta. We saw it flowering here and there - most dramatically, this group that had found a home in the seaside cliffs of the Mani peninsula. In the first picture I've marked them with a square, on the lower right.
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Wow Alisdair, its no wonder they dwindle away in my garden, wet, clay, shade :)
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Alisdair, what a beautiful locality of N. tazetta!, and not bad, you have an eagle sight!! Here a couple of pic from this evening
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a couple species I pictured two weeks ago, a species not identified and N. muñozii-garmendiae.
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Also I picture the same day Narcissus albicans
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in the garden, two natural hybrids and one bulbocodium from Morocco, Narcissus jacquemoudii
Narcissus x matritensis = N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus (mother) x N. cantabricus (father)
Narcissus x montielanus= N. blancoi (mother) x N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus (father)
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other recent blooms.
N. x neocarpetanus nothovar romanensis = N. bulbocodium L. x N. cantabricus DC.
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Fabulous plants, beautifully shown in your photos, Rafa - thanks very much for treating us to them. Some of the natural hybrids are fascinating, as is that unidentified species with the beautifully marked perianth segments.
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thank you for the lovely pictures!! now i think that my N. tazetta looks really plain...
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Wonderful, I would love to have some of those
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Thank you!
Alisdair, this bulbocodium is the taller I ever seen 21-22cm scape and 23cm leaves. Two green glossy leaves per bulb, solitary bulbs without vegetative divisions. Nice fragance.
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At the last RHS show I saw photographic images of the results of breeding with Narcissus viridiflorus. There was one with white segments and a green cup which I thought was lovely and very specie like. I took down the names of N. 'Emerald Sea' which I believe has produced quite a lot of offspring, and 'Sea Dream' x viridflorus.
This was something that I had thought of trying when I grew N. viridiflorus but never got around to.
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John there are several hybrids with N. viridiflorus, but it is a research field not very well studied. I am making crosses with N. viridiflorus, for my study of evolutive procces in Narcissus. I am crossing Bulbocodium section with N. viridiflorus. for the moment, I had succes with N. bulbocodium subsp. validus x N. viridflorus, N. cantabricus x N.viridiflorus, and also with other species like N. jonquilla x N. viridiflorus, N. willkomii x N.viridiflorus and N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus x N. viridiflorus. All of them have fructified, but I only will see the results with luck in 3-5years.
I can send you some N. viridiflorus seeds.
Last pictures in the garden N. pallidiflorus and N.cyclamineus x N. cuatrcasasii
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Sounds really fascinating. I enjoy hybridising plants. Hopefully we will see the results as they appear.
Thanks for the offer of the seeds which I would like but I REALLY don't have the space right now. I have quite a seed set on some of my Galanthus for which I don't have the room!
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Another species blooming in this week, Narcissus willkommii
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Nice to see it growing in the open ground, Rafa - and your picture shows very well the exceptionally long tube which make its flowers so distinctive.
I find it very hard to believe that having such a long tube gives the plant any evolutionary advantage!
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It is the fatality of evolving with a peculiar pollinator.
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Are you saying that this species is dying out because it has lost it's pollinator or that it is at risk of doing so because it only has one or a very limited range of pollinators?
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I doubt whether that is a reason for its dying out. Here under glass in the UK - very far from its natural range and therefore its usual pollinators - it sets plenty of seed without artificial pollination (I have a potful in a greenhouse that contains no other narcissi, in an effort to keep even open pollination true). I don't know what does pollinate it; though I have seen bumblebees scrambling around there, I suspect it may even be self-fertile.
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Thinking about it don't most Narcissus have the stamens at the mouth of the corona?
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Isn't the tube hollow?
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Yes the tube is hollow (though very narrow). And John is right about pistil and stamens at the mouth. My Narcissus wilkommii are really over, but this late flower shows that clearly - even though the tube is more than three times longer than the diameter of the cup! And you can see them in Rafa's picture, above.
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It was very striking to see on a TV documentary on Namaqualand plants in flower of Lapeirousia oreogena; these have very long narrow tubes. This common looking bee landed on the flower and produced an incredibly long proboscis that fit wholy into the flower tube in search of nectar. Then it took the proboscis out and moved to another flower where the procedure was repeated. It was evident that the tube served a purpose and that a particular pollinator was needed.
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Alisdair, seeing the corona of yor plant I would say it is other species. Do you have any picture of a complete plant?. I would said it is Narcissus cerrolazae, although Is not accepted this species, most of our colleagues in Spain support this species, and we did a folder in our Herbarium Virtual, here: http://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/herbarium/Narcissus-cerrolazae-Urena-cat13330.html.
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The best I can do is this rather cluttered photo I took when my pot was flowering last year - it's just finished this year so I can't take any more pictures.
What do you think, Rafa?
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Alisdar, I would say Narcissus cerrolazae Ureña.
Narcissus willkommii is another controverted species because there is not a clear border with the group fernandesii/jonquilla.
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Thanks very much for that, Rafa; next year I'll try to post a better single-plant picture (and in the meantime do a bit of re-labelling!)
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None of my Narcissus are rare or unusual, but, they are all beautiful.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/017-3.jpg)
Narcissus Tete a Tete, climbing up the new steps.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/057-2.jpg)
Narcissus Golden Dawn, just beginning.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/015-4.jpg)
Narcissus Avalanche, under the black plum tree.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/023-6.jpg)
Narcissus Geranium, in pots, still waiting to be planted.
The ones I planted in the garden last year, are much later to show. They are only just now pushing their buds up, whereas the new ones in pots, have been flowering for weeks already.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/022-4.jpg)
Narcissus x odorus, growing through an osteospermum.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/044.jpg)
Narcissus Sailboat, with Erysium Apricot Twist.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/040-3.jpg)
Narcissus Bridal Crown just beginning, with Pansy Padparadja.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/038-3.jpg)
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss112/daisyincrete/048-1.jpg)
This narcissus with a pelargonium and Euphorbia myrsinitis, I planted last autumn.
But I have old age brain death ??? ??? ??? and cannot remember who it is.
I can't even find it from my orders, which I still have.
Any ideas?
Daisy :)
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Daisy, Your garden is really lovely. Thanks very much for keeping us in touch with it, with all these beautiful pictures!
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Lovely flowers and lovely combinations, Daisy!
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I'll second that!
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Yes indeed, me too. I haven't seen any cultivated Narcissus in my travels on Crete though I have seen both the spring flowering and autumn flowering forms of Narcissus tazetta in the wild there. The autumn form grows near Elounda, presumably not far from you.
It looks like most of those you showed have N. tazetta in them.
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John, Do the spring- and autumn-flowering forms of N. tazetta keep to that timing in captivity? In the southern Peloponnese, where the "spring" ones are in flower from early January on, I've wondered whether at least some of them decide when to flower on the basis of weather, so that depending on weather they may be flowering either at the start or at the end of the colder period.
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Basically yes, with no more than the seasonal variation that you would get with any plant given weather, temperature etc.
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what a beautiful garden Daisy, :o.
Here are few narcissi recently bloomed in the garden. The names are not updated to the newest classifications
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You are true artist in the garden Daisy! I particularly love the imaginative planting of Tete a Tete either side of the steps. Unfortunately I cannot grow bulbs in my garden, the local Porcupine population regard them as a gourmet meal and search them out wherever I put them. I do try to grow some in pots but last year they even got to some of them even though I placed them on the wall of the loggia! >:(
As Umbrian (Carole) has mentioned the porcupine problem, I think it best to start a new thread under Pests and Diseases, so I'm moving her original message there, and the replies to it. You can find the Porcupines discussion by clicking here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=742.0).
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hello friends,
Here are a couple of pictures that I did yesterday evening in north Burgos, Spain. They are Narcissus iohannis and Narcissus bulbocodium subsp. validus.
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Some very interesting species Rafa! :o :o
Narcissus iohannis I am specially fascinated - does it grow on limestone?
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Exactly Hans, dolomitic limestone. It is amazing species, also considered as triandrus var. alejandrei. I saw plants with 1, 2 and 3 flowers per stem. I walk to the top of the mountain to take picturesm but when I was returning to my village, there were also many pants in the border of the road growing in crevices in both margins. But after the curve of this slope , the gravel pit was eating the mountain with the narcissi >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Thanks very much for showing us these treasures, Rafa; what a gorgeous plant N. iohannis is, as well as so interesting. Needs saving!!!!
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I am not sure about its taxonomic stauts, but the growing conditions are excepcional in this dolomitic mountains, I always see Ganymedes section in acid soil.
There are more localities but this particular one is quite damaged. Since many years I am introducing it through botanical gardens and societies an there is person from Japan that have grown very well. I think he get the seeds through Jim Archibald, may he rest in peace. I sent him my first collection to make be able ths species would be well distributed, and it is a pleasure to me see the results.
This species hasn't any kind of protection laws, recently I request in a Narcissus article, to protect every single species, if it's common like if it's not common in the nature.
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hello again!
Here two recent blooms, considered as hybrid, they are self fertile and creates groups of thousands of plants
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Hi Rafa, presumably N. x alleniae has a fabulous scent? I do love these small flowered types.
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not really John, it reminds me a little bit a goat pee :-\ and it is not logic because the scent from both parents are marvellous, in particular N. viridiflorus is the best to me
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That's a shame but it still looks really attractive.
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Have just seen your pictures, Rafa; lovely texture, too.
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:) Seed raising is the way to go and a great deal of fun............. but then sometimes those just-so-special selected forms like 'petunioides' just do not appear in seed batches so i have to resort to buying them. I do grow many tazettas and jonquils here plus many, many hybrids of those groups, and also poeticus which grow and flowers under an ancient pear tree in soil that is a swamp in winter but cool and dry in summer. It flowers quite well in these conditions.
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We don't set out to make narcissus hybrids, in fact the few species we have here in pots we go to some lengths to keep separate from one another, in the hope that seed will come true (which it usually does). But narcissi are naughty and promiscuous, and manage to enter into all sorts of illicit liaisons in spite of their chaperones and guardians.
One such foundling has just started flowering in a pot of moraeas. I think it might be a hybrid of Narcissus willkommii with either N. jonquilla or possibly N. rupicola but don't really have a clue! With its wide-flaring cup and rather bold flowers which are lasting well (these two and a bud so far on this stem) it may be worth trying to multiply. It's only a few inches high:
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That is a really lovely little hybrid? Alisdair. It is daff planting time here and I'm making a new flowery meade with sm bulbs - narcs, tulipa sp, crocus, scillas, muscari etc. Great fun looking ahead to spring.
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Trevor, Where on earth are you finding a space for that (lovely) flowery meade?? Every inch of your garden seemed so exuberantly full of growth!
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We cut down a cherry tree that never flowered because the parrots nipped the buds for winter food. That leaves a nice open space about 6m across. It is filled with roots but the little bulbs won't mind them and they will rot away within a few years. There's always room for one more/ some more. We have just concluded negotiation with Marcus Harvey to come over from Tas. to talk to the local MGS AGM. He will talk about his annual bulb/ seed collecting trips to Turkey, Greece, Crete, Cyprus etc. Should be a really good event. tn
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Oron's posting yesterday about Narcissi needing phosphorus (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=1245.msg8714#msg8714) prompts me to post some pictures I took last week of two attractive species growing wild in Portugal. I was at a meeting in Albufeira organised by the MGS Portugal branch (and the indefatigable Rosie Peddle), and I knew that these two species grew not far away, so I went a day early, hired a car, and set off in search.
Narcissus willkommii is a very narrow endemic, growing only in several spots along a particular river bank. It's a jonquil, sweetly scented, growing to about 25cm. It was in red clay which clearly gets very wet in winter and may sometimes be flooded, and was usually growing with a bent grass and small herbs. The first two pictures show plants in one patch (the white narcissus is the local subspecies of N. papyraceus, subsp. panizzianus - unlike the extremely rare willkommiii, it's very common in the area, starting to go over when I saw it). Incidentally, although the flowers usually had straight tubes, in some the tubes curved slightly upwards.
The other species - last three pictures - is Narcissus gaditanus, which can also be found in southern Spain. I found just the one colony, several hundred plants scattered in patches in the clearer areas of rather sparse maquis, growing in red clay among small rocks. This is extremely low-growing. In the shade of cistuses etc, it can reach a height of about 10cm, but in full sun - where it seemed much more floriferous - it's usually only 5cm tall and some plants were only about 3cm! The shape of the flowers varied from the classical gaditanus shape (the majority) to what some botanists used to call Narcissus minutiflorus. It really is a sweet little plant.
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Hi Alisdair,
Those are really lovely! May I ask where you managed to spot them?
Not so rare but also very sweet is Narcissus bulbocodium of course, flowering now and fairly widespread; did you see these on your travels?
I look forward to seeing more photos from your Portugal botanizing; shame we did not have a chance to chat more while you were over.
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Marilyn, thanks! I'll send you a private note about those narcissi - they're too rare to make much public noise about the localities. I did see one or two of the hooped petticoat narcissi but none of the big populations. (I'd heard there was a good colony only about 1km along the cliffs.) To be frank, I'm not nearly so keen on those bulbocodiums, which always seem rather dumpy to me!
Yes, I really wanted to talk to you but whenever I saw you you were deeply involved in something else, always!
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Yes there were loads of lovely N. bulbocodium on the cliffs - I think short rather than 'dumpy', absolutely delightful..
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We also attended the Algarve conference and saw the sites Alisdair told us about but stayed on several more days and saw many sites for N. gaditianus from flood plains, as in this picture, to hill tops. Narcissus bulbocodium had eluded us until right at the end of our stay when we found a colony with thousands of flowers growing under what had been a covering of Cistus ladanifer which had been burnt off the previous season. Rosie Peddle said she had never seen so many of this species before.
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That's a lovely gaditanus site, John!
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This was the best site and the most impressive. Most were scattered through scrub
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Narcissus obsoletus (was N. serotinus) is the first autumn flowering one for us this year.
cheers
fermi
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Now the Narcissus viridflorus has started - and I didn't save pollen from the N. obsoletus :(
cheers
fermi
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Must be time to see what mine are doing. That's a terrific stand. Were they a batch of seedlings or a few bulbs that have multiplied?
Gorging myself admiring Lachenalia viridiflora emerging. Will this be the year for flowers? Hope so.
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Fermi it is a splendid clump of a great favorite of mine. I grew it many years ago with the intention of hybridising from it. I never did manage to but I know of several others that have now. I saw some images of those a Newzealand breeder has produced a couple of years ago and they were impressive. Why is it green and did it evolve from a white species? I know from experience that the scent is fabulous or at least this is my memory. Presumably this is effective enough to attract pollinators. There could be markings not visible to the human eye as well.
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Thanks, Fermi, for those pictures of such a terrific stand of this mysterious plant!
(I've sown seed for the first time this year, and your photos are giving me encouragement for the next few years of waiting....)
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Thanks for your comments, guys,
this clump is from a few bulbs we got from Gordon Julian in Tasmania in 2002! My 3rd attempt at establishing them in the garden. They are planted in a raised bed/rock garden on the south side but still in pretty much full sun.
I try to avoid watering this area over summer and the flowers now come up through the superb little teucrium T. subspinosum which has spread to cover them.
I'm usually too concerned with other things to remember to collect pollen in time to save it for crossing with other daffs - I think other jonquills would be a possibility.
cheers
fermi
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I have been reading posts about Narcissus recently since I am now the proud owner of a porcupine free garden and shall be able to indulge my passion for bulbs again . My immediate question is - I recently received a present of some "Hawera" bulbs grown in a tall glass pot with pebbles and water in the bottom - no compost. They are flowering beautifully but I am wondering what to do when the flowers have finished in order to retain the bulbs for planting? Do I leave them in the glass pot or would they be better transfered to one with compost or even put directly into the ground?
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I'd plant them out in the garden as soon as the flowers fade. To help the acclimatization/ adjustment process I'd mix some coarse sand and perlite in the soil before transferring the bulbs from the growing jar. Water carefully with a root stimulant such as kelp or seaweed extract and feed lightly with water soluble low nitrogen fertiliser every 2 weeks.
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Thanks Trevor - will do - at least they will be going into good soil in the new garden unlike here where I battle with stony clay.
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I have been enjoying all these photos of narcissus. Thank-you all.
Umbrian, do you now have a new garden?
Please, please, please post some "before" photos.
Daisy :)
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Yes a good ideas from Daisy to Umbrian. Difficult with all these names isn't it!
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Here are some narcissus flowering in our garden this morning,
A hybrid "hoop petticoat" - probably one of Glebrook Bulb Farm's "Detective series" 10WW
A Div 6 hybrid - Tracey
Another Div 6 -"Tatiana x N. cyclamineus
and some single and double tazettas 8WY
cheers
fermi
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I'm going to be in Uruguay when a new sdlg Narc flowers and am very curious to know what I will miss. The seedlings are those of N. aleajandris? which I've never been able to attach to any image known to me, It looks like it will be a v sm jonquilla type. Any comments most welcome.
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Trevor, you can find a good picture of this really lovely narcissus from northern Spain, taken by our forum member Rafa, by clicking here (http://www.biodiversidadvirtual.org/herbarium/Narcissus-triandrus-L.-subsp.-triandrus-var.-alejandrei-Barra.-img144428.html). It is a form of N. triandrus, and the current view seems to be that it is a hybrid of two of the subspecies, named in The Plant List as Narcissus x alejandrei.
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Here's a triandrus hybrid from Keira Bulbs in Canberra,
KB-M-64-91-1S;
Another "green' one from Lawrence Trevanion in Canberra
07-03-MJ ('Hillstar' x 'Emerald Sea')
and a clump of 'Mitimoto', a hybrid hoop from Rod Barwick in Tasmania,
cheers
fermi
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Some more daffs from our garden,
A delightful Div 6 WW which I think is 'Mitzy'
A 6WY called 'Slip'ry' from Glenbrook Bulb Farm in Tasmania
A similar one called 'Trena' raised in NZ
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, I keep coming back to your photos.
I love all narcissus, but I think my favourite from your photos is the hoop petticoat hybrid Mitimoto.
They look so fresh to me at this time of year, when my garden here in the northern hemisphere is looking so messy and overgrown.
Daisy :)
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Daisy, I'm slightly surprised to agree with you! The surprise is because although I love narcissi, of all the species the hoop-petticoat types usually seem a little ungainly to me, their crowns so big and heavy in comparison with their shrunken perianths. But that patch of Mitimoto in Fermi's picture looks absolutely lovely, enough to convert anyone to hooped petticoats!
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I love Triandrus daffodill. My favorite is Narcissus 'Thalia' which I planted about 100 last year and I have now just bought another 100 to plant asap. It is so beautiful in a mediterranean environment ..the white under the dark green foliage.....
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My first Narcissus have started flowering in my garden.
The first flowers opened Christmas week, but a few more have opened now.
If my memory is not letting me down, I believe that they are Narcissus tazetta Grande Soleil d'Or.
Daisy :)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/11850098124_9bb6fd50c1_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93752583@N02/11850098124/)
004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93752583@N02/11850098124/) by Daisyincrete (http://www.flickr.com/people/93752583@N02/), on Flickr
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5524/11849957053_382a76374b_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93752583@N02/11849957053/)
005 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93752583@N02/11849957053/) by Daisyincrete (http://www.flickr.com/people/93752583@N02/), on Flickr
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Sounds like a very narrow selection of dying gods and archetypes. Many female divinities die(literally and figuratively in the process of
giving birth to the hero/messiah/redeeming god.
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Lovely as always to see 'photos from your beautiful garden Daisy - a welcome relief from all the serious, but important,discussions that are going on at the moment regarding plant labelling. :)
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Hi, I'm hoping for some advice on growing N obsoletus/serotinus from seed. I've had the bulbs flower in the garden this March (Southern Hemisphere) and have just harvested the ripe seed. I suspect that the species' early flowering (and seeding) habit means that the seed should be sown immediately but was wondering if others had any advice to offer. Also should I sow shallowly or deep? Thanks Anita
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Hi Anita,
Yes you should sow them as soon as possible. Like many autumnal bulbuos plants they germinate in the next few weeks. Sow shellowly, about 5mm deep and i suggest to put a layer of 1cm of crushed gravel to protect it.
It needs full sun and should flower after 3-4 years.
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Thank you Oron, i'll get the seeds in over Easter.
Anita
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Anita,
our Narcissus obsoletus is only coming into flower now!
Hopefully we'll get seed as well ;D
cheers
fermi
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We had Lawrence Trevanion from Canberra speak at our Victorian Daffodil Society meeting on Sunday. He's been breeding different sorts of daffs including autumn flowering types. He allowed us to take some of his cutflowers home and I took pics yesterday morning of these Narcissus elegans x N. tazetta hybrids,
cheers
fermi
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Another cutflower from Lawrence is waht I think is Narcissus miniatus x 2 pics;
and our first Narcissus viridiflorus, which I picked for the meeting x 2 pics,
cheers
fermi
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I love the Narcissus elegans and tazetta hybrids Fermi. Are they highly scented?
Daisy :)
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Yes, Daisy,
the scent is sweet without being as cloying as straight tazetta scent.
I'm hoping to be able to breed with these as well- I need to get some gelatine capsules to store it till my tazettas and other daffs come into bloom.
You can have a look at Lawrence's website here:http://www.trevaniondaffodils.com.au/ (http://www.trevaniondaffodils.com.au/)
cheers
fermi
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Thanks for the link Fermi. The photo on their website, reminds me of the narcissus fields in Cornwall.
Trevanion is an old Cornish name too.
Daisy :)
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Today I got some more pics - the first is another pot of Narcissus obsoletus and the second is the clump of Narcissus viridiflorus in the garden,
cheers
fermi
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Very encouraging to see that magnificent clump of viridiflorus! I've just come indoors, from looking hopefully at my pot of tiny seedlings....
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On the Mediterranean Garden Society's trip to Morocco in March, we saw two dwarf narcissi in the Toubkal National Park, above 2,500m in the High Atlas mountains above Imlil. One was the golden local endemic Narcissus jeanmonodii, first described as recently as 1986. We found that in damp patches of an alpine pasture, in quite sizeable groups (as you can see from the second photo).
I'm not so fond of "hoop petticoat" narcissi like the jeanmonodii, so I was thrilled when we found the other, the pure white Narcissus rupicola subsp. watieri. This was growing among bushes on much drier and steeper north-facing slopes, and always scattered plants rather than groups.
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Some more daffodils in our garden,
My own crossing of Narcissus bulbocodium ssp graelsii and Narc. romieuxii 'Mondieu'
Lawrence Trevanion's N. viridiflorus hybrid 'Viriquilla'
A "volunteer" hoop petticoat - either a seedling or a stray bulblet now flowering size,
cheers
fermi
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More daffs!
1) N. cyclamineus hybrid received as "Tatiana x N. cyc" (probably 'Titania' x N. cyc)
2) A cross I made between Narc. romieuxii and N.'Mondieu'
3) 'Papa Snoz' raised by Graham and Helen Fleming, Keira bulbs, Canberra
4) Narc. romieuxii raised from seed from the JCA selection 'Julia Jane'
5) Narcissus seedlings in the garden from near one of Rod Barwick's 10 WW hybrids ('Smarple' or 'Kholmes') - the distinctive one at the front is a 10 W-Y similar to 'Mitimoto', the one at the back is similar to its seed parent,
cheers
fermi
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Lovely Fermi, how refreshing to see what you are enjoying now whilst we are in the middle of summer -although I have to add that we are not having our usual hot, dry summer here in Italy and things are looking fresher than usual for August. :)
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More daffs in our garden right now,
first a couple of N. cyclamineus hybrids from Keira Bulbs,
a jonquilla hybrid I received as :Ken's Cross
a single spike of N. cordubensis forcing its way up through Jasminum parkii parkeri,
Narcissus hispanicus (one of two different bulbs I received under this name - from the same supplier!)
a white Narcissus bulbocodium hybrid from Keira Bulbs,
cheers
fermi
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What's the plant that N. cordubensis is growing through, Fermi? Looks useful ground cover for dwarf daffs.
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Hi Alisdair,
It's the "dwarf" jasmine, Jasminum parkeri, with yellow flowers in summer.
The Narcissus cordubensis and a N. viridiflorus came up through it presumably because ants carried the seeds there and they germinated and eventually came to flower - travelling up through 20 to 30 cm of the jasmine,
cheers
fermi
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Another "hoop" - Narcissus cantabricus from seed collected by Rafa in Madrid,
cheers
fermi
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Fermi the N look amazingly beautiful!! Charithea.
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Hi Charithea,
I think that all narcissus are beautiful but that N. cantabricus is crystalline in its beauty. The good thing is that they mostly love our climate and do very well for us in the garden (mostly in raised beds).
Another one of Rod Barwick's "Little Detectives" - 'Kojak';
A Narcissus cyclamineus hybrid, 'Mitzy' raised by Alec Gray,
cheers
fermi
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Some more daffs in the garden:
'Mitimoto' (another "Little Detective")
'Jumblie' (Alec Gray's sister seedling to Tete a Tete and Quince)
Narcissus x intermedius (N.jonquilla x N. tazetta)
Narc.fernandesii ssp cordubensis (one of Lawrence Trevanion's crosses between two clones of this ssp)
cheers
fermi
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Some more in flower now:
'Turland's Gold' - a Narc. cyclamineus hybrid from Keira Bulbs (bred by Tony Davis, Bowral, NSW)
A Narc. triandrus hybrid from Keira Bulbs
A tazetta hybrid
cheers
fermi
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Hello Fermi. You are correct. All Narcissus look lovely. I grew up with the indigenous Narcissus serotinus, (Sept-Dec)and Narcissus tazetta (Nov-Feb)both highly scented. Cultivated N came along much later for me. No long now and we shall soon have the former growing up on the hill and the latter later in the Spring. Charithea - and thanks for the pics!!
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A Narcissus cyclamineus hybrid, 'Mitzy' raised by Alec Gray,
After a week, 'Mitzy' has now faded to white (still a little yellow at the tip)
cheers
fermi
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Nice one Fermi, mine are flowering too but must be a week or so ahead of you as they are just about white-white. Your pictures are great but I suspect your partner must be right.... what with taking photo's and posting them on several sites you must spend no time eating and little time sleeping, and I know you work. We are anticipating rain so I'll be spreading fertiliser near all the little bulbs in the garden and pots.
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Narcissus 'Tracey'
Another N. cyclamineus hybrid (KB-6 W P-2-08) from Keira Bulbs in Canberra,
yet another one! (KS -2-2013 Seedling #1)
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Tracey' fades to cream/white,
cheers
fermi
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Some more daffs this week
A Narc. triandrus hybrid (probably triandrus x jonquilla as it was received as a jonquilla hybrid);
Narcissus (bulbocodium ssp) obesus just emerging
Narcissus 'Decoy x Swagger' - one of Rod Barwick's "little breeders"
cheers
fermi
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This is Rod Barwick's little jonquilla Narcissus 'Fenben'
cheers
fermi
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A jonquilla hybrid with orangey petals, 'Kedron'
A little trumpet which is possibly 'Elka'
A yellow and orange tazetta hybrid, 'Hoo Poe'
cheers
fermi
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A little hybrid called 'Kenellis' raised by Alec Gray prior to 1948 from N. bulbocodium x 'Snowflake'
A hybrid I raised from something I didn't record crossed with Narc. cyclamineus!
A cluster of 'Ruddynosey' and 'Dovekie'
cheers
fermi
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You are giving a lot of us great pleasure with your 'photos of Narcissus Fermi. I particularly liked the unknown x cyclamineus one in the latest posting - truly beautiful.
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Thanks, Carole,
glad you are enjoying them.
Here are a few more.
First some jonquilla hybrids:
Bell Song 7W-P
Kinglet 7Y-O
Aotea 7Y-O
Splatter 11a W-Y
cheers
fermi
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A dwarf hybrid Narcissus poeticus called 'Ringer'
A tiny trumpet named after the famed Daffodil breeder 'Alec Gray'
cheers
fermi
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'Splitter' is a great favourite with visitors to our garden. It grow with 'J.T. Bennett-Poe' and another small creamy pale yellow. It is often too windy here for the bigger, taller daffs to flower properly so I have moved my annual purchases into the shorter kinds.
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Trevor,
in that case there's plenty to choose from! Glenbrook, Hillview and Trevanion all have great catalogues which include a lot of dwarf forms. Remind me to send you Keira Bulbs' list when it comes out ;D
Here are some more from our garden,
'Cherie' 7WP and close up
'Estrella Bella' 11aW-Y, a split cup jonquil
'Pueblo' 7 WW
'Intrigue' 7 YW
cheers
fermi
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Hi, Despite the fact that the temperature is about to hit 41C in the next few days... my bulbs have decided that it's autumn in Adelaide.
I was stunned to spot a Narcissus serotinus bravely blooming as a did my afterwork wander around the garden. Apologies for the picture quality, dusk had started to fall.
It's a little beauty.. with a lovely scent. Last year I collected seed which I planted within minutes of harvest and had seedlings growing all through autumn and winter. I repotted in early January and there were about 20 tiny little bulbs. Hopefully in a few years time with a little diligence I'll have a little swarm of these delightful blooms.. I dream of enough that the scent hits me so that I don't have to get on hands and knees to sniff the scent!
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Anita,
ours didn't flower this year and when I unpotted them I found most had been decimated by mealy bug! >:(
It'll take a year or two to get them back to flowering size.
Narcissus viridiflorus in the garden are now in flower,
cheers
fermi
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Wonderful pictures of that legendary green narcissus, Fermi: thanks!
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The hoop petticoat daffs are usually the first of the "spring" ones, usually startring before the winter gets going and continuing on into the true spring.
Here are some that appear to be self-sown hybrids near their parents which haven't come into bloom yet,
cheers
fermi
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Other types of daffs are now flowering in our garden - a few weeks before it's officially spring here ;D
3 N. cyclamineus hybrid from Keira Bulbs in Canberra:
Narc.KB-6YOR-1-03;
'PapaSnoz';
Narc.KB-6-W-P-2-08
A tazetta hybrid from Trevanion Bulbs in Canberra:
Narc.09-18T(First Stanza x unknown )
And finally one of our own seedlings:
Narc.(JinglexSwagger)x N.cyclamineus.
cheers
fermi
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2 more from Keira Bulbs,
Narc.KB-M-10-2000, pale yellow petals and a deeper trumpet;
'Turland's Gold;
From Trevanion, a Narcissus fernandesii x N. viridiflorus hybrid
cheers
fermi
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Here are a few late flowering forms in our garden now:
'Sparkling Tarts' - a hybrid between a tazetta 'Matador and a N. jonquilla,
'Lemon Drops'
'La Belle'
cheers
fermi
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Daffodils are in flower now in the Southern Hemisphere!
I posted a pic of this daffodil from Lawrence Trevanion in 2014 as 07-03-MJ ('Hillstar' x 'Emerald Sea'); Lawrence has since named it and it is now called 'Viristar' to note its N. viridiflorus heritage,
cheers
fermi
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More hoop petticoat Daffodils:
1) Narcissus cantabricus grown from seed (from Rafa in 2009)
2) seedling from near Narcissus 'Tarlatan' and 'Tiffany'
3) seedling from near N. 'Jessamy'
4) N. 'Ben Bler'
5) seedling near N. 'Fyno'
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful - thank you for sharing.
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You're welcome!
Here are a couple of hybrid tazettas:
Taztep, raised by Lawrence Trevanion in Canberra;
a unnamed (well, it was named but I lost it) 8 W-Y hybrid,
cheers
fermi
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Lovely full perianth in that lost-label one, Fermi!
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Lovely full perianth in that lost-label one, Fermi!
Yes, it was from Ian Dyson who was an excellent breeder who passed away unexpectedly last year.
I'm not sure if it is his own breeding but I hope I can use it for some crosses (when I get a chance!)
cheers
fermi
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I have no idea how this lone ranger got into what is supposed to be a tub full of tulips and pansies - a mistake by the bulb supplier, I guess, and not picked up by me when I planted the tulips. But at least the narcissus had the grace to be the right colour to harmonise with the pansies, and will be well over by the time the tulips flower.
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Hi Caroline,
It's an early one, too! At least you can replant it elsewhere when you are re-potting ;D
Here are a few "hoops" from Lawrence Trevanion:
Gefk 10YW
Untshen 10WW
Nug Natch 10YW
Apparently he named them after sounds his children made when they were babies!
cheers
fermi
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Not the best specimen but the only spike this year on the tazetta Narcissus 'Omri' 8WY
cheers
fermi
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A few more hoops:
Imersh 10YY from Lawrence Trevanion, Canberra
Ianmon 10WW from Rod Barwick at Glenbrook Bulb Farm, Tasmania
Pilgrim Clay 10 WW from Graham Fleming at Keira Bulbs, Canberra
cheers
fermi
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This is a new narcissus from Keira Bulbs listed as KB-M-12Y-Y-1-03 (N. cordubensis x N. cyclamineus)
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus triandrus hybrid from Keira Bulbs;
Narcissus Fenben from Glenbrook Bulb Farm,
cheers
fermi
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Another new one, Narcissus 99-03D (N. 'Gayi' x N. cyclamenius) from Lawrence Trevanion
cheers
fermi
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This is a little multi-headed daffodil I got as Narcissus tazetta bertolini, very sweet,
cheers
fermi
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This is a new hybrid jonquil from Lawrence Trevanion in Canberra just listed by number: 08-06MJ (Demmo x 0-02J).
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Bell Song' 7WP
Narcissus 'Fencourt Jewel' 8WP
A N.bulbocodium hybrid from Keira Bulbs 10WY?
Narcissus 'Swagger' 6YY
Narcissus jonquilla hybrids;
Narcissus 'Aotea' 7YO;
Narcissus 'KS-6WP-2-03' from Keira Bulbs;
cheers
fermi
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This little hybrid jonquilla was raised by Rod Barwick (Glenbrook Bulb Farm, Tasmania) from 'Quickstep' x N. fernandesii;
it opens 7WY and fades to 7WW,
cheers
fermi
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Your lovely narcissus pictures make me really look forward to spring, even though we've nothing like your own beauties. But before then at least we've got the Mediterranean's "autumn spring", all the summer-dormant plants that are thinking of bursting into flower as the days cool and they can at least hope for some rain.
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Apologies if discussed elsewhere - this thread is very long! Which large flowered Narcissus (i.e. "Daffodil") - well, as large as possible - grows well and comes back year after year in a warm Med climate - where the "winters" are likely to have daytime averages of around 13-15C in Jan, nighttime perhaps 7C - and that's "cold" - and never freezes? Summer dryness not a problem. I am trying out Thalia and Carlton based on some recommendations but apparently N. pseudonarcissus is one to go for too. I know I said large... but beggars can't be choosers, the only 100% known safe choices here are the indigenous wild growing tazetta, serotinus, and the locally rare elegans, I'd love to grow "proper" Daffodils, or as close to as possible.
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Robarco,
Refer to my comments in relation to Tulip species for 'warm' mediterranean climates. I too garden in a warm climate with relatively warm winters, seldom falling below zero degrees Celsius. I have found that I can expect very few of the large trumpet daffs to repeat. I suspect that in the case of the daffs it's more complex than winter chill, there is also an element of time post flowering for bulbs to store carbohydrates and complex starches for the next year. Put another way our spring slides into summer too quickly to allow the bulbs enough time to store food for the next season. I have found that the earliest flowering daffs, here things like Welcome and Robin will persist over a few years but I lose them in years when we get very dry spring weather. I have found the smaller narcissi species which you mentioned do well as well as, strangely, most narcissi species with a little N. cyclamineus blood such as Jetfire (a lot of commercial stock now virused), Tete a Tete and so on. N. February Gold and February Silver are the largest I can get to repeat reliably. Quail and Little Witch also are reliable for me but are smaller flowered species.
I continue to buy a few dozen large flowered early daffs each year so I can enjoy them in late winter. I plant them in plastic pots, put them inside prettier planter pots to admire while blooming then give the bulbs to my brother in law who lives at a slightly higher and cooler elevation, to plant out in the garden as they will relower for him in later years but just present me with healthy leaves.
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Thanks again Anita yes I have previously contemplated the possibility that the temps may cause the leaves to yellow way too soon in Spring. 24C is pretty normal for April. Mine are all in containers so maybe I could try part shading them after they have flowered, to keep them cooler.
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The first of the autumn daffodils - this was raised from seed from AGS Seedex 2011 as Narcissus miniatus.
Is it now N. obsoletus? Or something else?
cheers
fermi
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Yours does look classic "Narcissus miniatus", Fermi - the orange cup was what people used to distinguish it from the paler forms of N. serotinus. But now that the taxonomists have decided that the orange isn't sufficient to give it species rank, whether your plant falls into the western-Mediterranean N. serotinus or the eastern-Mediterranean N. obsoletus would depend on other factors, I guess! ???
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Hi Alisdair,
I've now found out that the seed was collected at Coripe, Sevilla, Spain which apparently is now included in N. obsoletus.
I'll wait to see if Rafa can confirm this or will offer an alternative!
Here are a few more pics,
cheers
fermi
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Do let us know what Rafa thinks!
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Do let us know what Rafa thinks!
Hi Alisdair,
Rafa says it's what he calls Narcissus deficiens.
Here's one I grew from seed from Rafa as N. pseudonarcissus ssp muñozii garmediae, now just Narcissus muñozii garmediae,
cheers
fermi
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Thanks, Fermi!
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This week another of Rafa's little daffs has flowered (it's probably the smallest trumpet I've ever grown!):
Narcissus jacetanus ssp jacetanus [Coll Rafa DD 8-05-07 Alava Egino "Hoya delalace" Espana]
Sown 29-05-2010.
cheers
fermi
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Good heavens! They are amazing. I'm never sure though about such large cups on such short stems. Like the shortest forms of Lilium formosanum which always look to me top-heavy.
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Hi Alisdair,
the flower is in correct proportions but looks top-heavy because of that pic (taken on my phone);
Here are a few taken on my camera,
cheers
fermi
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Thanks, Fermi; yes, quite dainty
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And now some daffodils in the garden:
Narcissus 'Viriquilla'
Narcissus 'Viristar'
Narcissus 'Taztep'
Narcissus 'Ianmon' and close up
cheers
fermi
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Lovely to see these cool spring flowers while much of the Mediterranean and California is still sweltering in this unusually hot summer!
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Hi Alisdair,
interestingly enough we've been having one of our coldest winters with consecutive days of frost decimating many plants!
However the daffs are unaffected!
1) 'Snook'
A couple of N. cyclamineus hybrid from Keira Bulbs
2) KB-M-6WP-2-15
3) KB-M-31-2000 x 1
4) Narcissus tazetta bertolini
5) KB-M-2YO-1-17 x 2
6) Narcissus hispanicus;
7) comparing N. hispanicus to N. jacetanus ssp jacetanus ;D
cheers
fermi
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More daffs:
1) Narcissus 'Rapture' and 'KB 6W-P-2-08'
2) Narcissus 'Angel's Whisper' which is looking skyward for some reason!
3) Narcissus "Snook x Nanty"
4) Narcissus "Baby Star x N. jonquilla"
cheers
fermi
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Your 'Baby Star' x jonquilla hybrid looks a very prolific increaser
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Hi Alisdair,
It looks like it needs dividing ;D
1) A Narcissus 3 W-O (lost label);
2) A hybrid hoop from Keira Bulbs
3) A hybrid jonquil "08-06MJ" (7Y0) ['Demmo'x 0-02J]
4) a close-up
cheers
fermi
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Some more of the small daffs in our garden:
Narcissus "KS-6W-P-2-03" & "KB-BH-10WY";
Narcissus "KS-6W-P-2-03"
Narcissus "KB-BH-10WY"; a very robust hoop petticoat;
Narcissus "KB-M-64 91-1C" - a N. triandrus hybrid - 5YY;
Narcissus 'Jocelyn Newman'; 7-W-YPP
Narcissus 'Bittern' 12 Y-O; ('Matador' x N. cyclamineus)
cheers
fermi
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We were lucky to have sunny weather when we visited the Royal Botanic Gardens in Madrid a few days ago. We came across these tiny narcissus after seeing all the garden had to offer, camellias in flower, tulips galore, a section with plants grown for commercial purposes [ I asked my husband to find cotton, tobacco and sugar beet ] which he did. There was a rock garden to explore and a fresh water pond with croaking frogs. By the time we had been through the old and new greenhouse and ready to leave we passed these narcissus. As you see some are labelled with the label well hidden behind the plant another I have managed to snap the plant but chopped the label in half and another photo looks as if I just took a photo of the labels
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Lovely selection Hilary and what an interesting way to present the Narcissus - in pots sunk in gravel - could be a useful idea to copy in the garden generally for more treasured species as I for one am apt to forget exactly where bulbs are once the foliage dies down. Labels seem to get lost - blackbirds being notorious for digging deep to find worms and scattering them about. - food for thought regarding my recently acquired bulbs including the lovely Narcissus bulbocodium that you photographed. This autum I planted them in pots to appreciate them fully and see how they performed, perhaps now I shall just sink them into the ground.......
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These pots, sunk in gravel, seemed to be on some sort of table. The flowers were on eye level and out of reach
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Thanks for that further interesting point Hilary - perfect for appreciating the different varieties at eye level. The first post brought to mind a visit made many years ago to a Gertrude Jekyll/Edward Lutyens garden when a friend and I much admired an architectural feature of clay pots sunk into a path or gravelled area - several pots of decreasing diameters were put one inside another and then sunk into the ground so that just the rims were showing. Something I often thought of reproducing but never get round to doing.
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It's mid winter here and the hoop petticoat daffs are in flower!
1) 'Untschen', 10 WW
2) 'Quen Dor', 10YY
3) unlabelled white hoop petticoat
4) Possibly 'Fyno', 10WW
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful Fermi - very hot here so lovely to be reminded of the joys of cooler days!
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Some more daffodils coming into flower now in a very cold and wet Central Victoria:
1) 'Nug Nutsch' another of Lawrence Trevanion's "Baby Talk" series;
2) 'Ben Bler' one of Rod Barwick's "Little Detectives" series;
3) 'Quen Dor' has a few more flowers open;
4) a seedling raised from Narcissus romieuxii 'Julia Jane'
5) a seedling raised from Rod Barwick's 'Spoirot'
cheers
fermi
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Have to repeat.... so beautiful - thanks for sharing them ....
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Another new one from Graham Fleming in Canberra, KB-M-12Y-Y 1-0-3,
a cross between Narcissus cordubensis and Narcissus cyclamineus
cheers
fermi
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Keep them coming Fermi, so refreshing to see as we swelter through our hot summer.
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A couple more from Lawrence Trevanion's stables:
1 & 2) 'Virivest' ('Westholme' x Narcissus viridiflorus) opens 7GG and fades to 7WG ;
3 & 4) 'Viristar' ('Hillstar' x 'Emerald Sea') 7WW
cheers
fermi
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Virivest 'Westholme' +Narcissus viridiflorus is stunning Fermi - lovely 'photo showing newly opened flower.
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Yes indeed, amazing!
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Fermi many thanks for all those beauties you have been posting. They bring to mind Spring and cooler times to me.
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Thanks, everyone, for your kind words;
we are heading into "Peak Daff" so I hope I can keep up!
Here is another of Rod Barwick's hybrids: 'Snook' (N. nevadensis x N. cyclamineus)
cheers
fermi
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Two new daffs from Keira Bulbs in Canberra:
Narcissus KB-M-6YW-2-13 & KB-M-6WW-5A-17
cheers
fermi
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This is a very commonly seen tazetta narcissus found in many old gardens around Victoria.
I had thought that they were the variety "Straws" which Daffseek says is a synonym of 'Minor Monarque' https://daffseek.org/detail-page/?cultivar=Minor%20Monarque&lastpage=1&which=hist1 (https://daffseek.org/detail-page/?cultivar=Minor%20Monarque&lastpage=1&which=hist1)
But I don't think it quite matches some of the pics - I'd say the petals are lemon rather than white but maybe it's an artifact of the photography?
cheers
fermi
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This is what I got as Narcissus hispanicus a few years ago from Glenbrook Bulb Farm in Tasmania.
I got two bulbs and one turned out to be taller than the other. These are the taller ones - you can see the shorter ones just emerging in the second pic,
cheers
fermi
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This is a seedling hoop petticoat daff with quite long petals - longer than the cup!
The third pic is of 'Ianmon', another of Rod Barwick's "Little Detective" series which I think might be the parent of the long petalled hoop
cheers
fermi
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Interesting starry effect! Worth multiplying, I'd have thought.
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Hi Alisdair,
I agree - its "working title" is "Redesdale Star" ;D
Here's another of Lawrence's hybrids which involves Narcissus viridiflorus: Narcissus 'Viriquilla'
cheers
fermi
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The latest daffs in our garden:
1) 'Taztep', a tazetta hybrid from Lawrence Trevanion
2) a lemon "hoop petticoat"
3) a seedling of Narcissus fernandesii ssp cordubensis
cheers
fermi
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I love the 'hoop petticoat'. We don't see them here. Thank you.
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Hoop-petticoat daffs are very easy from seed. In our garden they self seed into cracks and gaps between adjacent paving slabs. Within 3 yrs they are flowering and seeding further afield. Fresh seed is best and if you practice no-dig gardening you can simply sprinkle the seeds where you'd like them to grow. Ants haven't carried the seeds away so far as I can see.
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Hi Charithea,
I'm surprised that "hoops" aren't grown there as they are a very Mediterranean bulb - coming from the Iberian Peninsula and across into Northern Africa.
More Div 6 daffs in flower now:
1) Narcissus "07-18D" [Pink China x Perberdy (Swagger x N.cyclamenius)] - from Lawrence Trevanion
2) Narcissus "KB -M-16-2000" (Snook x Nanty) from Graham Fleming, Keira Bulbs.
3) Narcissus 'Mite'
cheers
fermi
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Give them a go Charithea - you will be hooked - they are so characterful!
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Thank you both for the encouragement. Growing certain bulbs here is very difficult. We have many in the ground and every year we get leaves but not flowers. There is a limited variety of them and when we do find interesting ones they are not in good contition. The florist here sell Narcissus in the spring , three in a pot, that are normally forced to flower. Being at the very far end of the Med we get little rain and a lot of sunshine. Fermin we do have a lot of Narcissus which grow on the hills and corn fields but not hoops.
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You might think we only grow the little daffs.
Here are some pics of some of the larger hybrids in our garden!
cheers
fermi
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Some jonquills:
1) Narcissus 'FenBen' from Glenbrook Bulb Farm, Tassie
2) Narcissus x intermedius (N. jonquilla x N. tazetta)
3) Narcissus 08-06MJ (Demmo x 0-02J) from Lawrence Trevanion, Canberra
4) Narcissus 'Yazquil White' from Lawrence,
cheers
fermi
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I got this bulb of Narcissus triandrus ssp triandrus from Keira Bulbs last year and very pleased to see it return as it is not the easiest in our conditions
cheers
fermi
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Absolutely beautiful - hopefully it will multiply and not just survive.
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Narcissus 'Waterperry'(Favell UK) from Glenbrook Bulb Farm 2017
Narcissus 'Jocelyn Newman' 7W-YPP from Keira Bulbs 2017
Narcissus 'Romsey' x unknown 2or7WWP sown 2005
Narcissus 'Katie Heath' 5WP (Accent x N. triandrus ssp triandrus)
cheers
fermi
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This one is a bit of a mystery.
This daffodil came up after we had some earthworks done a few years ago.
The first time it flowered it looked like an ordinary, "standard" 2YY daffodil although the bulb itself would be well over 30 cm down! I presumed it was a bulb we missed when re-locating the dormant bulbs before the digger came through.
Last year however, the flower stem produced 2 florets!
This year there are 2 stems and 3 florets!
But what is it??
cheers
fermi
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This was taken in May this year: Narcissus 'First Stanza' (N.elegans x 'Soleil D'Or').
Lawrence Trevanion has been raising these interesting tazetta hybrids and they are great in our part of Victoria.
cheers
fermi
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Very pretty Fermi - and nice to be reminded of cooler days after the heatwave we have been suffering.
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Hi Carole,
glad to give you a bit of respite ;D
Here's Narcissus viridiflorus from late April
cheers
fermi
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Wow!
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Fantastic Fermi- keep them coming. :)
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Narcissus 'Autumn Surprise' back on May 12th
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus cantabricus or possibly the hybrid 'Nylon', the first of the hoop petticoat daffodils in our garden in early June
cheers
fermi
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At the moment I am having to be careful not to disturb bulbs in the garden when attempting some remedial work after our June heatwave. Their leaves have withered away now and many of my carefully placed labels are being dislodged and tossed about by a family of resident Blackbirds, the parents frantically digging to find food for their third brood of young. They have amazingly strong beaks and can cause havoc in their attempts, gravel tossed aside and labels too so I am never quite sure where to replace them.
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I know what you mean, Carole!
This is a green daffodil hybrid in flower today but no sign of a label >:(
cheers
fermi
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Amazingly beautiful Fermi - as green with envy as the Narcissus.
As I write this, with my early morning coffee in the garden, mother blackbird has brought her latest two fledglings to feed. I put food close to my chair on the terrace and they entertain me as I scan the news on my IPad. All part of the joys of gardening for me. :)
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Good time to post this as Hilary has just posted a pic of a stamp featuring Narcissus tazetta!
This is Narcissus tazetta ssp iltalicus grown from seed sent to me by Betty Clark in New Zealand a few years ago. A fitting memory of a great gardener,
cheers
fermi
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This is an unlabelled dwarf white hoop petticoat daffodil but not sure if it's a named variety or a seedling.
It was in flower in late June
cheers
fermi
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A couple of seedling hoop petticoat daffodils in the garden in early July:
1 & 2) white hoop with wide corona
3 & 4) lemon hoop
cheers
fermi
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This is a seedling hoop petticoat daff with quite long petals - longer than the cup!
The third pic is of 'Ianmon', another of Rod Barwick's "Little Detective" series which I think might be the parent of the long petalled hoop
Good to see that "Redesdale Star" has returned two-fold and a couple of weeks earlier this year
cheers
fermi
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From early July some hoop petticoat daffs from Lawrence Trevanion
1) Narcissus 'Quen Dor'
2) Narcissus 'Nug Nutsch'
3) Narcissus 'Untshen'
4) Narcissus "Winter Colours" - a mix of hoops, this is #2 (10YY)
cheers
fermi
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Once again Fermi thanks for posting such lovely photographs. As we struggle though a very hot summer it almost makes me wish it was winter!
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You're welcome! We're in the middle of winter here but spring is not far off :D
Here are a few more from mid-July
1) A seedling yellow "hoop" in July which is early, most of the early "hoops" tend to be white to cream or lemon.
2) Narcissus 'Shattergreen' (N.fernandesii x N.viridiflorus) from Lawrence Trevanion
3) Narcissus 'Viristar' (Hillstar x Emerald Sea)
4) Narcissus 'Winter Colours' seedlings
cheers
fermi
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Shattergreen almost has me drooling.....so dainty and unusual.
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From July 23 Narcissus 8WY - this is a named variety but I'd written the name down in a scrawl which I could not decipher :-[ Then the breeder died before I could ask him for its correct name!
It's a reminder of him and definitely worth keeping
cheers
fermi
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Shattergreen almost has me drooling.....so dainty and unusual.
Only "almost" ? ;)
I only got this one again after a few years - a friend who was at our local group meeting had a whole potful which was stunning.
Here's a seedling "hoop" which appeared in the rock garden - a very impressive wide corona!
cheers
fermi
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Here are two seedlings which have 'Mondieu' (a N.romieuxii selection made by Rod Barwick at Glenbrook Bulb Farm in Tasmania) as a parent.
The one on the left is from an open pollinated seedpod on 'Mondieu' while the other is a deliberate cross using pollen of 'Mondieu' on Narcissus bulbocodium ssp graellsii
cheers
fermi
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The 'Hoops' are my real favourites amongst the smaller varieties but Shattergreen' is really something special 😊
I understand your comment about the unnamed variety that came from a since deceased friend. When we moved from our original house here in Italy I felt as if I was leaving many friends behind in the garden. Over the 19 years we lived there so many visiting friends bought me plants as I developed more and more of the land around the house. The Wisteria was always know as 'Shirley ', the two Campsis as 'Doreen' and 'Jane, various Salvias as 'Pauline' etc. Where possible I took cuttings so that I could keep such friends with me in my new garden. Since the first three friends have since died I like to think they live on....somewhere.....
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Yes, Carole, most of us have gardens full of friends :)
This is Narcissus 'Snook' (N. nevadensis x N. cyclamineus) from Glenbrook Bulb Farm.
First pic from 2-08-19 and the others on 5-08-19
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Autumn Colours' - flowering a bit late possibly because I left it dry for too long .
The first pic from 5-08-19 and the others on 10-08-19,
cheers
fermi
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How refreshing to see all these cool flowers. You seem to have a feeling for growing such delicate bulbs. I will admire them from afar as I know I can not get them to flower here.
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Hi Charithea,
I like to think that we have a mild, Mediterranean-type climate and most narcissus are perfectly suited to our conditions. The tazettas and the autumn flowering species come from Mediterranean areas so are worth considering for your garden.
Here's another one of Lawrence Trevanion's "Baby Talk" series of hoop petticoat hybrids: 'Gefk'!
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus lemon hoop (ex Max McCoy)
This "hoop" has done well in a raised bed with a sand/loam/clay soil mix. I got it years ago as a handful of "baby bulbs" from a past member of our garden club who has since departed us. We have an annual plant swap at the club and this was something he had donated
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful - and another good memory in the garden.
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A dwarf jonquil which we got under a different name but I think it's Narcissus wilkommii
cheers
fermi
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Lovely- looking so natural coming up between the rocks.
Always think the setting of a plant can add so much to our appreciation. :)
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Fermi, you might be interested in this picture of N. willkommii (which some people claim is N. jonquilla subsp. jonquilloides) which I took one February in one of its few known locations on the banks of a small possibly rather seasonal stream in southern Portugal:
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Hi Alisdair,
This clump couldn't be growing in more different conditions being in the centre of a raised "plateau" in the rock garden mound and doesn't get any supplementary watering
cheers
fermi
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This is yet another daffodil from Lawrence Trevanion, 'Autumn Jade', which is 'Taztep' x 'Virivest' .
I suspect it's flowering so late because I left planting it a bit late :-[
cheers
fermi
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Four Narcissus
Not home grown I am afraid but seen in the Royal Botanical Gardens, Madrid, April 2018
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Narcissus (Quickstep x N. fernandesii) x N.viridiflorus.
These green daffs were bred by Paul Rumkoff in Victoria who recently sold off his plants as he was embarking on a "bucket trip" across the world. I got two pots of daffs from him and these are the first to bloom.
The first 3 to bloom are quite distinct from each other
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful Fermi - keep posting as it is so refreshing to see these dainty narcissus as we continue to soak up high summer temperatures. 😊
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Once more Fermi you have grown more beautiful bulbs. You are correct in saying that bulbs do well in Med countries but unfortunately not in our garden. We have tried many times with very little success. We make do with the native ones when they are in season. We take long walks to track them down and photograph them. A young friend of mine , who lives at a slightly higher altitude, tries growing them every year. She rings me to go and admire them but they are not faring well. I shall continue to look forward to your photos.
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We have visitors from the Melbourne branch of the MGS coming to see our garden on Sunday :o
Hopefully there'll be enough out for them to see!
Here are "Campernelles", Narcissus x odorus in flower now
cheers
fermi
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Sure there will be enough to start some interesting conversations - enjoy, wish I could be there!😊
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Thanks, Carole.
The day went very well and Caroline Davies, the MGS President, was present and said she will post some pics to the MGS Facebook.
Here are some more daffodils:
1 & 2) Narcissus 'Bittern'
3 & 4) Narcissus GB#27-2005 (1-WP) from Keira Bulbs
cheers
fermi
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I've put one of Caroline Davies's pictures, of Fermi's rock garden, on the facebook cover today. You can see it even if you're not a facebook user, by clicking here (https://www.facebook.com/mediterraneangardensociety/photos/p.2378951095474207/2378951095474207/?type=1&theater).
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What a beautiful garden Fermi - so glad Alisdair posted the photo on Facebook in an accessible way for those of us who don't use it! ( Thank you Alisdair :))
I envy you the Euphorbia, apparently crosses between two of my favourites. Shall be looking at mine closely from now on in hopes.
Keep up the good work and keep posting 😊
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Thanks, Carole and Alisdair,
I should point out that my partner, Will, is co-gardener and the designer of the rock garden in particular! He's the designer and I'm the plant chooser ;D
Back to the daffodils!
Here are a few new ones:
1) Narcissus KB-M-DEC-1WY-1-18 - a little cutie at less than 8cm high!
2) Narcissus "Steplings" - these are seedlings Lawrence Trevanion has raised from his Narcissus bulbocodium hybrid 'Gold Step' so there's a little difference between the seedlings,
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Matador' is a hybrid tazetta which makes an impressive sight in full flower
cheers
fermi
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Perfect combination by the looks of it 👍😊
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1) Narcissus 'Katie Heath'
2) Now a nice clump, this is a narcissus seedling raised from a locally raised hybrid 'Romsey'.
From a sowing in 2005 I got 20 twenty seedlings in 2008 but there were only 3 bulbs when I repotted in 2012! From 4 planted out in 2014 I got two flowers that year. These all appear quite similar in appearance so I wonder if they are all descended form a single bulb prior to 2012?
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Cloth of Gold'
cheers
fermi
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From earlier in September:
Narcissus 'Joycelon Newman' is a hybrid jonquil raised by Graham Fleming of Keira Bulbs in Canberra
cheers
fermi
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Also from mid September:
Narcissus 'Wub Wub' a hoop petticoat hybrid from Lawrence Trevanion
cheers
fermi
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... by any other name would smell as sweet
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But it would be god to know why he named it "Wub Wub"!
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But it would be god to know why he named it "Wub Wub"!
Hi Caroline (and Alistair)
Lawrence has an interesting take on naming his daffs! This one is in his "Baby Talk" series - based on sounds and "words" his children came out with when they were little; others include 'Gefk', 'Untschen' and 'Quen Dor'
cheers
fermi
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From mid-September:
Narcissus 'Split' 11aW-W (Gerritsen, Holland)
cheers
fermi
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Interesting re the names but while I may well remember "Wub Wub" I don't think "Untshen" or " Gefk" would have much chance.😕
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Thanks Fermi. Gefk? No way!
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I think Lawrence had his tongue firmly in his cheek when naming these ;D
From September 25th, this is 'Solveig's Song' raised by Rannweig Wallis and named for her sister.
I believe it was imported into Australia by the late Marcus Harvey at his Hillview Rare Plants Nursery in Tasmania. I did have it from him years ago but managed to lose it :-[
However Josie, a member of our group, was more successful with it and I was able to get it from her a few years ago ;D
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus deficiens which came to us originally as N. serotinus
cheers
fermi
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This one came as Narcissus miniatus originally from Harold Koopowitz via Lawrence Trevanion in Canberra
cheers
fermi
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This one came as Narcissus miniatus originally from Harold Koopavitz via Lawrence Trevanion in Canberra
That pic was taken on the 16th and these were taken on the 19th of March
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful Fermi - flowers before the leaves appear?
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Beautiful Fermi - flowers before the leaves appear?
Yes, it seems that way, though I've been told that Narcissus viridiflorus when it reaches flowering size only sends up flowers stems which are able to photosynthesize so leaves are unnecessary!
I think this one does send up leaves later in the year,
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus poeticus var. recurvus, Pheasant’s eye, Poet’s narcissi
One of the many Narcissus seen in the Royal Botanic Garden Madrid,
April 2018
Narcissus poeticus is mentioned in THE MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN many times, I chose THOUGHTS ON SPRING ANNUALS AT SPAROZA
By Caroline Harbouri
THE MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN number 84, April 2016
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Lovely Hilary and a good idea to show your photos.
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Hilary, have you ever seen the drifts of Narcissus poeticus in Northern Greece? These were near Mavrouni.
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No, our trips north always seem to have been either in the winter or on a bus tour
Great photo
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Lovely photo Alisdair - what a privilege to see these beautiful Narcissus growing in their natural environment - thanks for sharing. I often think many flowers lose some of their beauty when grown in gardens however carefully we place them, too much competition at times.
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Narcissus
Etincelante = sparkly
Fortissimo = very loud
Las Vegas, This needs no explanation
Three more Narcissus seen in the Royal Botanic Garden Madrid in April 2018
There are very many references to Narcissus in THE MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN . I don’t know how many are for wild Narcissus and how many for these ‘tame’ ones
To read about a new garden where Narcissus are planted between the roses go to THE MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN number 78, October 2014 and read
TWO GARDENS by Carole Cross
There are photos of these two gardens here
http://www.mediterraneangardensocietyarchive.org/78-twogardens.html
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Narcissus 'First Stanza' is in flower a month earlier than last year and is more floriferous
cheers
fermi
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So strange to see that flowering already in your autumn, when we still have a few narcissi flowering here at the end of our spring!
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Beautiful Fermi.🙏
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Narcissus
Ltzim
Mirar
Smiling Sun
The last photos of Narcissus seen in the Royal Botanic Garden Madrid in April 2018
Narcissus is mentioned in THE MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN number 98, October 2019 in
A MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN IN CORFU
By Cali Doxiadis
There are photographs illustrating this article here
http://www.mediterraneangardensociety.org/98-doxiades.html
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Narcissus
Ltzim
...
Hi Hilary,
I meant to reply to your post awhile ago! I think the Botanic Garden may've misread the name which I think is "Itzim" https://daffseek.org/detail-page/?cultivar=Itzim&auto=1 (https://daffseek.org/detail-page/?cultivar=Itzim&auto=1)
cheers
fermi
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A few from late autumn/early winter:
Narcissus 'Virivest' (01_01MJ = Westholme x N. viridiflorus 7G-G -> 7W-Y) from Lawrence Trevanion in Canberra, started to flower at the end of May (first pic 20th May) through to early June.
cheers
fermi
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Lovely! They look so fresh and it reminds me of our Spring which has already come and gone. There are still wild flowers around but the golden yellow colour of Sumer is spreading.
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What a beauty Fermi.....feel as if we should be enjoying such flowers here at the moment with constant rain and low temperatures- they would seem more fitting!
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This is the first of the Narcissus 'Winter Colours' from Lawrence Trevanion - I've labelled it #5 because I got 10 of them and they are variable - a selection of hybrid hoop petticoat daffodil
cheers
fermi
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A deep yellow seedling hoop petticoat daffodil flowering now - earlier than most of the other yellow ones
cheers
fermi
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Gorgeous Fermi 🙏
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Thanks, Carole.
Here's another white hoop petticoat which appeared in a pot with something else. It could be a seedling or it may've been a stray bulblet mixed up in the potting mix
cheers
fermi
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These I like a lot.
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Glad you like them, Charithea, because there are more to come!
This is Narcissus 'Nug Nutsch', one of Lawrence Trevanion's "Baby Talk" series,
cheers
fermi
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Thank you Fermi.
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Lovely Fermi, and so good to see 'out of season' flowers at the moment as we swelter in high temperatures :)
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A few more unlabelled "hoops".
The cream coloured ones are in a rock garden.
The dark yellow ones were from a small stray bulb found in another daffodil's pot!
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful
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Thanks, Hilary; I've been enjoying your pics of the ancient ruins - I doubt that I'll ever get to see them in person so I appreciate you sharing your pics and stories :)
Here are a few more "random" hoops in the garden - they tend to seed about gently, but some might be "commercial" forms that are no longer labelled,
cheers
fermi
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These are some of the Narcissus viridiflorus hybrids raised by Paul Rumkoff in the Otways before he moved and divested himself of much of his garden.
These were the result of crossing Narcissus viridiflorus with the hybrid Narcissus (Quickstep x N. fernandesii)
cheers
fermi
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Rather weird - can't decide if I find them strangely attractive or deformed. 🤔
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Rather weird - can't decide if I find them strangely attractive or deformed. 🤔
I'd go for deformed! I'm worried that they've become diseased - but it may be due to extreme weather :-\
Here are a few different ones:
1) Narcissus 'Trumpocodium' - I hesitated about buying this because of the name, but apparently it's a cross between a Trumpet daff and a N. bulbocodium!
2) Narcissus 'Avalanche', a very floriferous N. tazetta cultivar
3) A mix of yellow trumpets and a N. cyclamineus hybrid - I think it's 'Warbler'
4) Narcissus maybe 'Warbler'
5) Narcissus 'No matta' - from Lawrence Trevanion
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Xit' is doing very well this year
cheers
fermi
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Beautiful and refreshing!
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Yes, agree with you Charithea- lovely to share as we still enjoy hot, summer temperatures.
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Sorry for not being around for awhile!
Here are the earliest narcissus in our garden, the hoop petticoats!
The first is Narcissus nivalis which ahs been in flower from mid May! The earliest we've had it in flower here.
The next is an unlabelled "white hoop", probably derived from Narcissus romieuxii
cheers
fermi
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So pretty- mine were poor this last winter but hoping for better next. Sweltering here at the moment, winter seems a long way away now.😊
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Good to see you back Fermi - as Umbrian says, it is hot and sticky here so the winter flowering bulbs are long gone for us. But they will come back :-)
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I've posted pics of Lawrence Trevanion's daffs in the past and this is a seedling raised from his hoop petticoat daff 'Oidle Loidle',
cheers
fermi
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This is an old tazetta hybrid known here as "Double Roman"; on Daffseek it is called 'Romanus'
cheers
fermi
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Love the seedling from Oidle Loidle - petals just like very fine crumpled tissue.
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Love the seedling from Oidle Loidle - petals just like very fine crumpled tissue.
Thanks, Carole,
It's quite nice but probably not distinctive enough to name.
Here's another "hoop" which came from Rod Barwick at Glenbrook Bulb Farm in Tasmania.
It's called 'Sacré bleu'
cheers
fermi
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You're more the expert Fermi but I think it is lovely - perhaps you just took an exceptionally good photo!
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Well, here's one that I think is a bit more distinctive.
It's a seedling from 'Mondieu' a selection of Narcissus romieuxii from Glenbrook Bulb Farm in Tasmania.
This seedling is similar to 'Sacré bleu' which is also a 'Mondieu' seedling,
cheers
fermi
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Yes, another beauty - I am no expert but fell in love with these kinds of Narcissus when we moved from our house in the country, where Porcupines made any kind of bulb growing impossible, and was able to finally include some in my new, walled garden. 😊
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I hope that you have been able to include some hoop petticoats in your new porcupine-free garden, Carole!
Here's another seedling in flower now - it's from 'Julia Jane' and has quite a large flower at 5cm across!
cheers
fermi
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Yes, I introduced some with varying degrees of success- last year was poor so I am hoping for an improvement this year after our baking hot summer😊
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They are so attractive.
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Narcissus 'Golden Rain', a double tazetta,
cheers
fermi
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lovely
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Thanks, Hilary.
Here's 'Gold Step' ('Alfriston' x N. bulbocodium) from Lawrence Trevanion and after it, one of its seedlings which Lawrence calls "Steplings"!
cheers
fermi
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They make me dream of cooler days. Thank you Fermi.
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They make me dream of cooler days. Thank you Fermi.
And we are just seeing more sun and slightly warmer weather!
Here are a few more daffs:
1) Narcissus 'Bittern'
2) Narcissus 'Rapture'
3) Narcissus 'Taztep'
4) Narcissus 'Tête-à-tête' - though few are "double headers" - does that make the rest just "Têtes"?
5) Narcissus hispanicus - originally received as two bulbs - one seems to be a bit taller,
cheers
fermi
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Some more this week:
1) Narcissus cordubensis
2) a split cup daffodil, possibly 'Canasta'
3) a hybrid jonquil, Narcissus 'Jocelyn Newman'
4) Narcissus 'Pilgrim Clay' from Keira Bulbs
5) Another from Keira Bulbs under their number KB-N-Dec-1W-Y-1-18
cheers
fermi
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Lovely to see these spring bulbs as we continue to swelter - I suppose when we are enjoying them I shall be longing for warmer days.... perverse creatures aren't we?😊
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Yes, I agree with you.
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Forms of Narcissus tazetta do really well in Australian gardens but most Aussies call them jonquils! >:(
Probably because true jonquils need cooler conditions so the tazettas usurp their position in gardens here.
Friends were getting rid of a huge number of narcissus last summer and we got bucket-loads from them, mostly tazettas. We potted up a lot,
cheers
fermi
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Most Narcissus start off well for me but over the years they disappear. An exception is this minute-flowered N. jonquilla subsp willkomii. I had the same number of bulbs last spring as I did when I started with them several years ago. I also have a variety called N. jonquilla 'Baby Moon' (last photo) which seems to have more rounded petals. I bought that 2 years ago. Let's see if that is as resilient. I am looking forward to seeing them next spring. How I wish we could skip the necessary winter for that to happen though!
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Hi David,
have you tried any of the tazettas?
I think they tolerate the heat better than a lot of the other narcissus.
Here's one of the hybrid jonquils whose label has gone missing!
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Minnow' is a dwarf tazetta raised by Alec Gray
cheers
fermi
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Congratulations on your many successes. I know it needs patience. They look so cool and desirable especially now when we still have hot sun rays 'baking' the earth.
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Hi Fermi
Thanks for the tip. I bought some bulbs of 'Minnow' last year and they flowered early this spring. Now it remains to be seen if they have survived what has been a consistently hot summer. I do, though, have a preference for the cylindrical leaves of the jonquilla types that I have. Until they flower you wouldn't suspect that they were narcissus. Look like chives but without the smell.
Fingers crossed :-)
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Thanks, Charithea,
I'm posting a few more tazettas to encourage David to try them ;)
1) Narcissus 'Erlicheer'
2) Narcissus 'Matador'
3) Narcissus 'Polly's Pearl' & 'Avalanche'
4) Paperwhites - Narcissus papyraeus
5) Narcissus 'Brentwood'
6) Narcissus 'Soleil d'Or'
cheers
fermi
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.... I do, though, have a preference for the cylindrical leaves of the jonquilla types that I have. Until they flower you wouldn't suspect that they were narcissus. Look like chives but without the smell.
Just don't add them to your scrambled eggs :-X
I like the jonquilla types as well and have a few of the species as well as many of the hybrids derived from them.
cheers
fermi
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1) Narcissus nivalis - this tiny "hoop" has had flowers since mid-May!
2) Narcissus 'WubWub'
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Narcissus "Glenbrook Pastels" is a mix of hybrids raised at Glenbrook Bulb Farms.
Here are a couple I've grown,
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Silver Chimes' a tazetta hybrid which has N. triandrus as its dad
cheers
fermi
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Hi Fermi,
Thanks for the photos and the suggestions. I particularly liked the look of the paperwhites. There are a couple of bulb suppliers who sell at the flower shows I often go to and between them they are offering N, 'Nir' and N. Ziva'. In the photos Ziva looks slightly more attractive. It has fewer flowers per stem so the form stands out better. Though both plants and flowers are a bit too big for me, I will look out for them. You should be earning commission!
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Hi Davidd,
see if you can find Narcissus panizzianus which is a smaller growing "Paperwhite"
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Mount Hood' - the trumpet opens a light yellow and matures to a pure white
cheers
fermi
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A few of the double forms:
1) from Keira Bulbs simply designated Narcissus KS-talldouble-2-01
2) 'White Lion' and 'Ice King'
3) a mutation of 'Ice King' with half yellow petaloids
4) a more typical 'Ice King'
5) 'Modern Art' - not really a double but the cup has been frilled to a major extent!
cheers
fermi
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They are lovely and unusual Fermi. Nothing like the narcissus of my childhood. Do they have a scent?
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They are lovely and unusual Fermi. Nothing like the narcissus of my childhood. Do they have a scent?
Hi Charithea,
the tazettas have a strong, also pungent scent. Some of the species jonquilla types have a sweet scent. Not sure if many of the standard types have much scent.
This is Narcissus 'Cloth of Gold',
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Nomatta' raised by Lawrence Trevanion from 'Cloth of Gold' crossed with a Welch seedling (probably 'Matador' x [(Autumn Sol x Ballymarlow) OP]
cheers
fermi
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A dwarf split-cup daff - Narcissus 'Slip Slop'
and the similar 'Splatter'
cheers
fermi
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Thanks for sharing Fermi. I didn't know split cups existed. Something to look out for
Cheers
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Hi David,
I suspect that earlier examples of split cups would have been discarded as aberrant forms and not worth keeping.
At some stage a daffodil breeder must have been able to convince others that they were simply another expression of daffodilness ;)
Some people are still repulsed by them - they are not everyone's cup of tea
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 'Geranium' is an oddly named tazetta which did brilliantly for a few years before being decimated by the green phytoplasma disease.
These few are the remnants which are slowly coming back to flowering size
cheers
fermi
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Narcissus 7WP 'Quickstep' x N. fernandesi a hybrid I got from Ian Dyson who was a leader in our local Victorian Daffodil Society.
The flowers open yellow and mature to white petals and pale cups which are supposedly pink!
cheers
fermi
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Caroline Davies just posted a pic of her Narcissus rupicola ssp watierii on Instagram.
I have the hybrid 'Xit' raised by Alec Gray, the famous daffodil breeder in the UK in the 1940s.
It's a sweet little white daff - I think the hybrid may just be a bit taller,
cheers
fermi
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Both very desirable 😊
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Two similar bit very pretty hybrid jonquils:
Narcissus 'Bahama Beach'
Narcissus 'Gazelle'
cheers
fermi
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Love 'Gazelle' - have one similar - only ever produces one or two flowers but well worth waiting for.
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Love 'Gazelle' - have one similar - only ever produces one or two flowers but well worth waiting for.
Yes, I'm coming to appreciate this type as they flower later than a lot of the others. Their graceful appearance is an added bonus,
cheers
fermi
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Another similar daffodil is called 'Yazquil' from Lawrence Trevanion,
cheers
fermi
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These are two of a hybrid group raised by Paul Rumkoff who moved a couple of years ago to Western Australia and was disposing of most of his stock,
cheers
fermi