Cyclamen

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cycnich

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #135 on: November 18, 2011, 04:34:29 PM »
A few graecum leaves from my garden today. The first and second rows are ssp candicum, the third and fourth are spp anatolicum and the bottom is spp graecum.
Pat Nicholls Cyclamen and associated bulbs.

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cycnich

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #136 on: November 18, 2011, 04:35:45 PM »
The last few hederifolium flowers of Autumn.
Pat Nicholls Cyclamen and associated bulbs.

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2011, 11:43:53 PM »
It is amazing the range there is now in Cyclamen. Here's a picture I took this morning of Cyclamen persicum autumn flowering ex. Duma. It has more flowers coming and seems better than it has for many years. Maybe it's the Indian summer we still seem to be having. The weather is fairly miserable but we were around 15ÂșC today!
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #138 on: November 20, 2011, 11:28:02 PM »
I mentioned about buying some dark flowered hederifolium form our local garden centre and one had particularly silver leaves. This season I sowed all of the seed from this one plant and to my surprise all of them are coming up with a silver leaf. Most unexpected as they will have outcrossed! So in this case the silver marking is presumably a dominant gene!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 09:40:09 AM by John »
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #139 on: November 21, 2011, 07:25:54 AM »
Fascinating, John!
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #140 on: November 26, 2011, 12:11:33 AM »
This is a specimen of Cyclamen mirabile 'Tilebarn Anne'. They don't always perform this well for me!
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #141 on: November 26, 2011, 12:14:08 AM »
And here's a typically pale pink C. rohlfsianum. This species does seem to flower better for me if I keep it dry until it comes into flower.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #142 on: December 03, 2011, 06:04:00 PM »
Clearing up my desk just now (long overdue) I found a little note that in February in the Peloponnese this year I found a bulldozed Cyclamen graecum tuber which - before I rehomed it - I measured and weighed.
It was just over 200 mm across, and (despite being virtually rootless) weighed 1.714 kg.
This picture taken last week shows that the poor rootless orphan described above seems to be enjoying its new home  :)
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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cycnich

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #143 on: December 04, 2011, 02:53:36 PM »
Lovely to see it doing so well, it was well worth saving, it really has a will to live.
Pat Nicholls Cyclamen and associated bulbs.

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Alisdair

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #144 on: December 04, 2011, 04:34:39 PM »
Thanks, Pat: yes, Helena and I were thrilled to see it peeping out from under a Salvia fruticosa.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Sandra

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Difference between graecum, hederifolium and persicum
« Reply #145 on: December 08, 2011, 03:45:23 PM »
These are all amazing pictures and fascinating tales of cyclamen but for the less well informed amongst us can someone please  explain (in simple English) how I tell the difference between Cyclamen graecum, hederifolium and persicum for starters?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 08:48:17 AM by Alisdair »
Sandra Panting
I garden in the Southern Peloponnese, Greece and will soon be creating a small garden in Northampton, England.  I'm co-head of the MGS Peloponnese group and a member of the RHS.

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John

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Re: Difference between graecum, hederifolium and persicum
« Reply #146 on: January 09, 2012, 12:18:21 AM »
Hi Sandra, I have to say that I don't even think about it any more I assume that I know with a glance! Having said that I can admit to occasionally confusing some leaf forms of C. persicum with C. graecum especially when not in flower.
C. persicum is usually quite distinct in that it flowers generally in the spring period though there are a few populations that are autumn flowering.
Both C. graecum and C. hederifolium are generally autumn flowering (though there are apparently some later flowering forms which I believe are quite unusual). Their leaves are very variable and to generalise about them would be difficult as they can look quite similar. The flowers also are quite similar which doesn't help at all.
Perhaps while I have a think about it someone else will comment further!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 08:48:45 AM by Alisdair »
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.

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Alisdair

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Re: Difference between graecum, hederifolium and persicum
« Reply #147 on: January 09, 2012, 09:22:11 AM »
Sandra, Around where you are based in Greece the simplest way of telling these apart is where you find them.
For starters, you won't find Cyclamen persicum growing wild in mainland Greece. (Very occasionally you may come across it in ancient graveyards, descended from ones people have planted there in the past.) And as John says the wild ones flower in spring (except for some populations in Israel), but the other two species flower in autumn.
The plant which flowers abundantly on the hillsides around and above your Greek house, normally either in open ground or in dry phrygana, is Cyclamen graecum.
By contrast, Cyclamen hederifolium tends to grow in more shaded, rather damper or wooded places - little sheltered valleys etc; for instance, in your area it's common around Milia and Castania.
As John says, once you have seen quite a few plants, you can tell them apart at a glance, though it is quite difficult to put the differences into words. Until the leaves have got really weathered, the leaves of Cyclamen graecum often tend to have a rather velvety look, as opposed to the smoother and glossier look of C. hederifolium. Cyclamen hederifolium leaves can get quite a lot bigger than those of C. graecum - sometimes as big as your hand or even larger; even just finger-length would be pretty big for C. graecum.
Looking at the pictures in this thread, comparing C. graecum and C. hederifolium leaf patterns, should help too.
I have to say that it is really difficult to tell the flowers of these two species apart, but around your area, at least up to 500 metres or so, you have the bonus that the populations of C. hederifolium are often gently scented, whereas C. graecum never is.
Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

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JTh

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #148 on: January 09, 2012, 11:25:54 AM »
Sandra, I found the description of the flowers of these two autumn flowering cyclamens in C. Grey-Wilson's Wild Flowers of the MediterraneanC. hederifolium: 'Flowers pink with a purple -magenta V-shaped blotch at the base of each lobe'. and C. graecum: 'Flowers ... with 3 fine magenta streaks at the base of each lobe, the outer streaks V-shaped, the central one unbranched. Lafranchis & Sfikas (in Flowers of Greece) say about C. hederifolium '...petals with two short stripes on the outside', and C. graecum: 'Petals with long featherings (= stripes) outside'. I found this very useful when I was trying to identify the cyclamens in my region (Halkidiki, I have only seen C. hederifolium there), and I have attached two photos showing the differences, the last one was from Crete.
Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.

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John

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Re: Cyclamen
« Reply #149 on: January 09, 2012, 09:21:12 PM »
The autumn flowering C. persicum is possibly quite widespread in the Lebanon as well.
John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.