The MGS Forum
Plants for mediterranean gardens => Bulbs (including other geophytes with corms, tubers, rhizomes etc) => Topic started by: John on September 10, 2011, 03:05:12 PM
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I'll place this here as it is obvious it is a colchicum but we can ask our learned friend to guess the species! Or anyone else for that matter. Jorun?
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I'm not that learned, John. I have a white Colchicum in bloom here in Norway now, C. album, but it does not look like that one.
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Do i see a faded sign of tesseleation?
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I dont think anyone can tell which species it is, it can be at least 8 species that i can think of.
I have doubts about one species or to precise, a white form of that species. That is why i asked the question earlier.
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Yes Oron it does have a very faint trace of markings which are tessellated. Not a pure albino. It is perhaps quite an obscure species and not that well known.
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Well. its obvious that is a white form, my first guess would be C. graecum, second C. sfikasianum.
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Well done but your second choice. C. sfikasianum.
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I thought I would start a Colchicum topic folder.
Starting with Colchicum cupanii
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Is this the same species?
I photographed it on the Akamas peninsula this afternoon (there were a few in the path around Pissouromoutti, favouring pine woods, where it was cooler and damper).
I am not sure of the distribution of C. sfikasianum.
However...
Desmond Meikle (Flora of Cyprus) mentions three species of C., none of which ticks all the boxes.
C. troodi is given as flowering Sept-Nov (tick), but not in this area.
C. stevenii is not in this area according to the book, flowers a bit later, is not in the same habitat, and is very rare.
C. pusillum is not in the area, but Supplement IV (http://www.bgbm.org/willdenowia/w-pdf/w34-2Hand.pdf) includes C. pusillum at a locality not far away. But its flowering period is given as Nov-Dec.
I don't know how to tell the species apart - Cc. sfikasianum and pusillum...
For reference:
- The Check-List of the Genus Colchicum in the Flora of Turkey (http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/botany/issues/bot-05-29-4/bot-29-4-8-0409-9.pdf) includes C. pusillum (as C. montanum var. pusillum) and includes Cyprus in its range.
- C. pusillum is the only species of C. in the Virtual Cypriot Biodiversity Museum (http://www.naturemuseum.org.cy/lang1/non_endemic.html).
Updated 25sep11 22.08pm (UK time): I had been looking in the wrong volume when I stated
"Desmond Meikle (Flora of Cyprus) does not mention any Colchicum species"
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I believe that C. sfikasianum is quite localised to the Peloponnese and is normally pink tesselated. Some species are very variable and this may be the case with yours here.
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Mike
It is Colchicum troodi.
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troodi
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Thank you Oron.
I can also confirm this in relation to the Flora of Cyprus now.
'Contributions to the flora of Cyprus I' includes an update to C. troodi, on p.62:
"Colchicum troodi Kotschy
+ Division 1: Neo Chorio, steep slope with scattered
trees and bushes.
The population shows a wide range of variation already described by Meikle
(1985: 1594). The perianth segments vary from narrowly oblong to almost
obovate, their colour from white to vivid pink. K. P. Buttler"
That locality is on the Akamas peninsula, not far from 'my' plants.
The Contributions (I)- and Supplementary Notes (I-IV)- to the Flora of Cyprus can be downloaded from www.ingentaconnect.com (open access). (Search for 'Flora of Cyprus' in the search box on the home page.)
Note that (V) has two additional PDFs: 'colour plate's and 'errata', but the search doesn't find them. For that, see
http://www.bgbm.org/willdenowia/willd36/hand.htm
That page also includes a link to an index to taxa in I-V (not VI).
It is always a bit aggravating not to know what a plant is (maybe more than a bit), especially one you see often.
I have seen this Colchicum at various places along the Akamas ridge over the years, so it is very good to have this settled.
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Mike
Sorry but i had to delete the exact location you just gave.
We try in the different Forums not to give exact locations in the wild of Bulbous plants, Rare or protected species as there are many commercial plunderes out there which will get every where possible in order to make some money!!!
Oron
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For John Fielding's photo of C. variegatum click here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=86.msg225#msg225).
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C. sfikasianum was named for our own George Sfikas who identified it in 1988. Kit Tan (Endemic Plants of Greece - The Peloponnese) says it can also be found in the southern Ionian islands and Attica.
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Oron & Fleur - thank you
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Back to C. troodi again, I was fortunate to see some nice clumps of this in Cyprus after the AGM in 2009.
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Another sign of autumn here in Halkidiki is the appearance of Colchicum, I always thought they were C. bivonae. The first ones this autumn were seen in the outskirts of the garden last week, I have not been able to photograph any of them yet, but here is an old photo taken 8 years ago just outside our gate. There are many of them in this region, they vary a lot, so mayby there are different species? Some have more rounded petals like in the first photo and in the second, more cup shaped one, from the Holomondas (low mountains behind us), others seem to have more pointed petals (third photo, half way between our place near the coast and the Holomondas). The last ones looks more like C. macrophyllum, but they are not described in this region. Not that this always means that they can't be here, the place is more or less terra incognita when it comes to plant registrations
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Wonderfull photos Jorun, in particularly C. troodii.
I agree with you that the last looks like C. macrophyllum rather then C. bivonae,
It would be very easy to have an answer when leaves are present.
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I'm sure I won't be here when the leaves are out.
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I think you should be careful in assuming you can tell a species from the leaves. On Crete I found what was obviously C. macrophyllum aan later I found it to be a huge leafed form of C. cupanii with pleated leaves!
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I think you should be careful in assuming you can tell a species from the leaves. On Crete I found what was obviously C. macrophyllum aan later I found it to be a huge leafed form of C. cupanii with pleated leaves!
Still, C. bivonae and C. macrophyllum have two distinctive leaves.
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As far as you know!
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We are back in the UK after the Mallorca/Menorca meeting, to find a pan of Colchicum psaridis in full flower. This is my favourite colchicum. It's endemic to southern Greece, neat and elegant, and full of character. Its corms are rather long and sinuous, bending around horizontally like little black fish - that's probably how it got its name (psari is Greek for fish). They develop from colonising rhizomes, so in the wild the plant can form extensive patches - the first I ever saw spread for a couple of metres right across an isolated cobbled donkey path. And a big plus for me is the honeyed fragrance, sweet but not cloying.
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Fantastic potful :o
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Lovely!
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Nai katapliktikos.
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Thanks folks - I wish we could get scent to travel over the internet though!
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I'm sure there is an app for that!
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I just went to see what the scent of Colchicum cupanii (collected on Crete) was like and it was sweet and smells of coconut.
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Lovely display Alisdair!
Yesterday I went to Jerusalem in order to see Colchicum hierosolymitanum in bloom:
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Thanks for sharing your view of those lovely plants, Miriam! Any fragrance?
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Thanks Alisdair.
I did not notice any special fragrance...
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For Ori's photos of Colchicum antilibanoticum, szovitsii and feinbruniae among other mouth-watering bulbs in bloom at the moment in Israel, after rains,click here (http://www.mgsforum.org/smf/index.php?topic=539).
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Beautiful pictures Ori, I think all of us who went to Israel this year with the MGS will just be longing to go back and see more. Thanks for those.
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Autumn in South Australia and the colchicum are up. Not sure what the first variety is, its common in old gardens and is sold as C agrippinum... but I'm not confident that all the bulb suppliers are meticulous about their naming. Regardless of the name this bulb is summer dormant so can take our heat and drought, and I know when it flowers the loveliest weather of autumn is on its way.
I've also been lucky enough to source two bulbs of C. byzantinium album .. and look how many flowers from just two bulbs. Now if they will just move fast bulking up!
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I'm reviving this Thread as some of the pics are intriguing.
Years ago I raised some colchicums from seed labelled Colchicum bivonae - when they flowered I was told that that was not what they were! Now a second generation have come up from self-sown seeds.
They look suspiciously like the Colchicum hierosolymitanum in Miriam's pics above but I'm sure I'd need to compare the foliage as well,
cheers
fermi
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All I can say is definitely not bivonae.
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All I can say is definitely not bivonae.
You're probably right, Alisdair! ;D
I think the new generation have hybridised with some of the others nearby such as this one (which came as C. autumnale but looks more like C. speciosum, or possibly a hybrid between the two?)
cheers
fermi
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Another colchicum from seed, this time labelled C. sibthorpiae but not that species
cheers
fermi
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This tiny one is Colchicum corsicum.
Grown from seed many years ago and planted in this bed before it was overgrown by Dymondia margaretae!
cheers
fermi
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Fermi, do you find bulbs (well, or corms etc) reasonably tolerant of Dymondia? I'm curious about their behaviour with ground covers generally. It's not something that's much discussed in print.
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Alisdair,
I would not say that many bulbs are tolerant of being overgrown by Dymondia!
I was amazed that the colchicum was able to find a way through.
cheers
fermi
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This is one of the larger cultivars and I think it's around in commerce as 'The Giant'
cheers
fermi
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This little one came as seed from Betty Clark in New Zealand as Colchicum arenarium.
Seed sown in 2011 and first flowers last year,
cheers
fermi
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A few of the colchicums which flowered this year.
Starting with
1) Colchicum neapolitanum macranthum in March
2) Colchicum corsicum, still able to penetrate the dymondia mat
3) Colchicum byzanthium in April
4) Colchicum NOT sibthorbii
5) Colchicum decaisnei in late May.
6) Colchicum cupanii in June (this came from a friend in Melbourne whose own plants flowered a month earlier! He got it initially as Colchicum zahnii, then was told it was actually C. psairdis and finally, no, it's C. cupanii! Whatever ::) it's a sweet little thing but would be lost in the garden so I keep it in a pot
cheers
fermi
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Nice to see them, Fermi; thanks! The last one, especially with that corm that's obviously tucked against the side of the pot, does look a bit as if it's stoloniferous, which is a marker for C. psaridis....
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That's my suspicion as well, Alistair! ;D
Especially comparing it to the pic you posted on the second page of this thread,
cheers
fermi
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This is a Colchicum which I originally got from a friend in the 1980s as "Lilac Major" which is possibly a form of Colchicum byzantinum
cheers
fermi
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Colchicum boissieri from Hillview Rare Plants a couple of years ago
cheers
fermi