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  5. What should we count as bulbs?
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What should we count as bulbs?

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Alisdair

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What should we count as bulbs?
« on: March 01, 2012, 10:49:48 AM »
On this Bulbs board, we include plants with corms (such as freesias) and with other obvious underground storage organs (such as the "swollen hypocotyls" of cyclamens).
But should we also include plants which grow from rhizomes, such as hedychiums which we currently include under Perennials?
I'm inclined to think that we should. This would certainly make it easier to deal with irises, which sometimes have definite bulbs and sometimes have rhizomes!
Authorities from Charles Grey (in his still extremely useful three-volume 1937/8 Hardy Bulbs) to today's Brian Mathew (e.g. in his useful cultivation book Growing Bulbs: The Complete Practical Guide) do take this broad view of "bulbs".
What do people think?
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

Daisy

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 01:18:41 PM »
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Daisy :)
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Amateur gardener, who has gardened in Surrey and Cornwall, England, but now has a tiny garden facing north west, near the coast in north east Crete. It is 300 meters above sea level. On a steep learning curve!!! Member of both MGS and RHS
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Alisdair

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 03:13:14 PM »
Thanks, Daisy - would keep things simpler!
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society
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John

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 09:18:59 PM »
Wouldn't geophytes cover it better. Or too technical? Bulb is definitely a technical term and quite limiting. Though I suppose technically some of the rhizomatous plants e.g. Iris have rhizomes that are on the surface rather than under ground!
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John
Horticulturist, photographer, author, garden designer and plant breeder; MGS member and RHS committee member. I garden at home in SW London and also at work in South London.
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Fleur Pavlidis

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 10:53:03 PM »
I agree with John on using geophytes, possibly followed by bulbs, corms etc in brackets. It's a useful word to learn even if it is technical.
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MGS member, Greece. I garden in Attica, Greece and Mt Goulinas (450m) Central Greece
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JTh

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 12:00:04 AM »
I agree with you, Fleur.
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Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.
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Alisdair

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 10:15:07 AM »
I'm nervous of putting people off, but perhaps
Geophytes (bulbs, corms, rhizomes etc)
wouldn't be too daunting.
I'm still strongly influenced by the fact that all the book publishers, aiming for even quite specialised and informed gardeners, shy away from using Geophytes as the titles of their bulbs books, sticking to Bulbs instead.
So overall I think my own preference, pushed by you geophyte-lovers, might be for
Bulbs and other geophytes (corms, rhizomes etc).
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 10:24:04 AM by Alisdair »
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

ezeiza

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 12:27:35 AM »
No, no, no.

Including everything under bulbs is confusing for people trying to learn about their cultivation. It is amazing that

Kniphofia
Hosta
Aristea
Lanaria
Bulbinella
Tricyrtis
Alpinia
Astilbe
Phlox
even Cannas

and scores of others are included among geophytes. Where do you find a bulb, corm or tuber under them?
Yes, there are a few like Arisaemas with rhizomes and Trilliums that could belong to either group but they are the absolute minority. Personally, it doesn't affect me much to see common garden perennials included among bulbs, WRONGLY, but again, to newcomers it is a lot of confusion. Of course, the current approach will be followed, that is plain clear.

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David Bracey

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 10:01:39 AM »
Bulbs are geophytes so let`s stay with geophytes.  What`s  wrong with technical terms anyway.  Latin names are bad enough. 
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MGS member.

 I have gardened in sub-tropical Florida, maritime UK, continental Europe and the Mediterranean basin, France. Of the 4 I have found that the most difficult climate for gardening is the latter.
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Alisdair

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 01:56:20 PM »
After a lot of discussion we've decided to keep things more or less as they are, but will be changing the title of this section to:
 Bulbs (including other geophytes with corms, tubers, rhizomes etc).
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society

ezeiza

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2012, 08:05:06 PM »
Agapanthi? Where do you find a bulb of any sort under an Agapanthus plant? Yet, they are bulbs for most societies.
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JTh

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2012, 08:58:05 PM »
Alisdair, your last suggestion should cover everything without scaring anybody with latinophobia, and finding a place for agapanthus should not be a problem.
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Retired veterinary surgeon by training with a PhD in parasitology,  but worked as a virologist since 1992.
Member of the MGS  since 2004. Gardening in Oslo and to a limited extent in Halkidiki, Greece.
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Helen Johnstone

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 04:51:06 PM »
As a fairly inexperience gardener particularly on terminology I would welcome geophytes if you include the explanation in brackets.
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Helen
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Alisdair

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Re: What should we count as bulbs?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 08:24:29 PM »
OK Helen, will do!
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Alisdair Aird
Gardens in SE England (Sussex); also coastal Southern Greece, and (in a very small way) South West France; MGS member (and former president); vice chairman RHS Lily Group, past chairman Cyclamen Society
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